The heretic's mom

[Frank Harrist]

http://www.archaeologynews.org/Link.asp ... AEOLOGISTS Unearth Priceless Ancient Egyptian Statue

[Leona Conner]

I read this story in the news section of this site. It's going to be interesting to find out just who she is, because Queen Ti had quite a reputation for being "a bitch on wheels" as the saying goes. Even after Ankenaten became pharaoh she managed to have her say about things and probably had more of a hand in ruling than historians acknowledge.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Akhenaten was a revolutionary. In everything! He changed religion: he introduced monotheism as the state religion. He changed capitals: he built a brand spanking new one. He changed ruling style: his wife, the queen, ruled as an equal at his side. He was a truly remarkable pharao.
When he died his 9 year old son Tutankhamun became the new Pharao. It makes sense that his mother the queen probably was the defacto ruler for her 9 year old son. She shared that duty with Tye, the royal grand-vizir (a kind of prime minister), who murdered both, in some accounts, to become the next pharao himself.

[Leona Conner]

Right on. This is a period of Egyptian history that really fascinates me. Especially the monotheastic thing. Ever wonder where old Ankenaten got the idea? Could he have had some contact with the Hebrews? They would have been in Egypt at that time. But if they were slaves, as they claim, why would a member of the royal family have anything to do with them. After reading "Oedipus and Ankenaten" by Emmanual Veliskovsky(?) I have to leave room for change in what I think about Egptian history.

[Minimalist]

Probably the other way around, Leona. The Hebrews got the idea from the Egyptians....one of many things they stole.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Right on. This is a period of Egyptian history that really fascinates me. Especially the monotheastic thing. Ever wonder where old Ankenaten got the idea? Could he have had some contact with the Hebrews? They would have been in Egypt at that time. But if they were slaves, as they claim, why would a member of the royal family have anything to do with them. After reading "Oedipus and Ankenaten" by Emmanual Veliskovsky(?) I have to leave room for change in what I think about Egptian history.

What made Akhenaten special was that he made monotheism the state religion of the state of Egypt. That was new. That had never been done. Monotheism itself probably already existed here and there before. Indeed, the Hebrews perhaps (perhaps!) were a model for Akhenaten, but there's no reason to assume the Hebrews were the only monotheists around at that time!

[Minimalist]

Modern scholarship generally agrees that the Israelites as a people rose in Eastern Canaan about two centuries after Akhenaten. In one hundred years of searching they never found any artificats to show that there ever were "Hebrews" in Egypt.

Frank and I went through this at length with dear old departed Jean Marie.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Modern scholarship generally agrees that the Israelites as a people rose in Eastern Canaan about two centuries after Akhenaten. In one hundred years of searching they never found any artificats to show that there ever were "Hebrews" in Egypt.

Frank and I went through this at length with dear old departed Jean Marie.

Oh, I comiserate! But in that case I'm sure the subject must have been covered exhaustively. Thanks for the short-cut. Saves some space here...

[Minimalist]

J/m never used one word where 10,000 were possible.

[Leona Conner]

If the Exodus took place during the reign of Ramses II (1279-1212BCE) and the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt for 300 years, as the bible claims. That would mean that Joseph went there some time around 1550 BCE. Since Ankenaten regined 1350-1334 BCE, he would have been in the middle. Of course, the Bible doesn't give exact dates for events just length of time each event took. I have time lines shows Joseph as going into Egypt anywhere from mid-1800 to late 1400 BCE, quite a time difference.

[Frank Harrist]

If the Exodus took place during the reign of Ramses II (1279-1212BCE) and the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt for 300 years, as the bible claims. That would mean that Joseph went there some time around 1550 BCE. Since Ankenaten regined 1350-1334 BCE, he would have been in the middle. Of course, the Bible doesn't give exact dates for events just length of time each event took. I have time lines shows Joseph as going into Egypt anywhere from mid-1800 to late 1400 BCE, quite a time difference.

Not a good idea to quote the bible around here. It's amazing how much we know about Ahkenahten, considering that his people hated him and even his own son tried to obliterate his name from history.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[...]It's amazing how much we know about Ahkenahten, considering that his people hated him and even his own son tried to obliterate his name from history.

I always understood Ahkenahten's people liked him (he provided lots of work and food for the builders of his new capital, for years!), but that the priesthood – previously dedicated to a pantheon of gods, then forced to abandon that and worship a single god – were Ahkenahten's big opponents, throughout his reign. And as soon as Ahkenahten had died they turned everything around, back to the old, pre-Ahkenahten religious system.
Tutankhamun was only 9 when he became pharaoh. How conscious would you say the actions of a 9-year old are? Not very, imho. I.o.w. it was others (the priesthood? Tye? Together?) who have tried to obliterate Ahkenahten's name from history. Abusing Tutankhamun's name.

[Minimalist]

Archaeologist, William Dever, has made a pretty convincing case that monotheism among the Israelites did not become exclusive until after the Babylonian exile. He has found hundreds of idols of the Goddess Asherah at Israelite/Hudean settings.

It's in his book: Did God Have A Wife?

[Frank Harrist]

[...]It's amazing how much we know about Ahkenahten, considering that his people hated him and even his own son tried to obliterate his name from history.

I always understood Ahkenahten's people liked him (he provided lots of work and food for the builders of his new capital, for years!), but that the priesthood – previously dedicated to a pantheon of gods, then forced to abandon that and worship a single god – were Ahkenahten's big opponents, throughout his reign. And as soon as Ahkenahten had died they turned everything around, back to the old, pre-Ahkenahten religious system.
Tutankhamun was only 9 when he became pharaoh. How conscious would you say the actions of a 9-year old are? Not very, imho. I.o.w. it was others (the priesthood? Tye? Together?) who have tried to obliterate Ahkenahten's name from history. Abusing Tutankhamun's name.

I seriously doubt that his people liked him. How would you feel if someone all of a sudden told you that you couldn't worship the pantheon of gods that had been worshipped for a couple thousand years and told you that you had to worship one new god. And also told you that he was the only representative of the new god on earth and you could only worship through him. I think the majority would resent that. Also the former religions ahd supplied many many jobs which were no longer available after the old gods were banished. Given that many were employed to build a new city, but the new city was in a poor location. I gotta go.....more later

[Minimalist]

I doubt that this was meant to be a "popular" religion in any case. The people's beliefs and practices would have gone on unchanged because they did not count for much. Akenaten, himself, was the principal beneficiary of the Sun God but that was pretty true under the traditional Egyptian pantheon as well.