Chalcolithic Prehistory...

[Minimalist]

I always thought the "Land of the Golden Fleece" was Washington, DC?

[Leona Conner]

Shouldn't that be "the land of milk and honey."

[Guest]

Washington DC is where all the crooks live. All those lawyers in one place can't be good.

[daybrown]

I dont see a clear case to be made on more difficult birthing among Native European women; there are charges that their doctors have made a good living out of doing unnecessary procedures.

But the alegorical data from the literature is compelling; there are innumerable ancecdotes of Asian women giving birth in the rice fields, then going back to planting rice. I dont see that kind of thing in Native European literature.

then too, we've seen lots of Egyptian mummies, many of women, and while there's lots of kids too, they aint newborns. There are a couple of graves in NW China that seem to suggest maternal death, but, I dunno of any anywhere else in the Chinses archaeological reports I've read. And the thing is, that the Tocharians of NW China were *Native European*.

Perhaps is someone has some links to women believed to have died in childbirth in India, China, Pre-Columbian America, & Africa, we could compare the rates with the numerous such bodies found in Europe before the incomes of doctors became a factor.

There's another clue as well. That which is less common becomes more valuable. If indeed, there was a higher maternal death rate in Europe, then there'd be fewer women, and such women as remained would have more choices in marriage, and more power in the culture. Which is eggzactly what we see.

[Guest]

I dont see a clear case to be made on more difficult birthing among Native European women;

What exactly does 'Native European' mean, since no-one on this side of the Atlantic actually uses the phrase?!

Perhaps is someone has some links to women believed to have died in childbirth in India, China, Pre-Columbian America, & Africa, we could compare the rates with the numerous such bodies found in Europe before the incomes of doctors became a factor.

Before the Reformation, medical care was provided by the local monastery/friary. After it, every village had its own female midwife. Only the upper classes could afford the services of a doctor, and their women were as likely to die in childbirth as peasant ones.

There's another clue as well. That which is less common becomes more valuable. If indeed, there was a higher maternal death rate in Europe, then there'd be fewer women, and such women as remained would have more choices in marriage, and more power in the culture. Which is eggzactly what we see.

When the Industrial Revolution happened in Britain, people moved off the land into towns, away from seasonal agricultural work and into waged work. This meant people could afford to marry younger and have more children earlier. And women were still dying in childbirth into the 20th century. See The Industrial Revolution in World History by PN Stearns, A Concise Economic History of the World by Rondo Cameron, or The Industrialisation of the Continental Powers 1870-1914 by W. Trebilcock.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[quote="daybrown"][...]But the alegorical data from the literature is compelling[...][/quote]

"Alegorical data"?
ROTFLMAO!!!
That's a great one! The mother of all 'contradictio in terminis'! May I suggest it is also a fitting title for your forthcoming book?
At least nobody can deny you have a sense of humor...

[Guest]

Chances are that church records in Europe would be full of entries about women dying in childbirth. As for going back to work after giving birth, it was probably so commonplace it wasn't felt necessary to comment on it.