Atlatl

[gunny]

We see the atlatl in use in Australia perhaps 50K years ago, or more. Was it in use in Europe? In Asia? What areas have the earliest dart points in the Americas? Interesting skulls found in Baja California with close match to Aboriginal Australians. Could the American atlatl have its origines in Australia?

[stan]

I have been waiting for someone to bring up the atlatl.

In spite of having such an important hunting tool
(and war implement?), it has been forgotten.
Why aren't there atlatl contests in the olympics, for example.
And for that matter, the boomerang, too...

I've never seen a good demonstration of either one.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[quote="stan"]I have been waiting for someone to bring up the atlatl.

In spite of having such an important hunting tool
(and war implement?), it has been forgotten.
Why aren't there atlatl contests in the olympics, for example.[/quote]

For the same reason the athletes now wear shoes...

[quote="stan"]And for that matter, the boomerang, too...

I've never seen a good demonstration of either one.[/quote]

When I was 12 I had a plastic boomerang. From the toy shop. And it worked too! After a lot of training I could make it circle a tree and back into my hands again.
So, stan, if you want a demo of a boomerang, buy your nextdoor neighbor 10/12 year old one*, grab a beer, sit back on your porch, relax, wait and watch!
I'm sure you can do the same with an atlatl, although you'll probably have to make one yourself.

FYI:
the 2006 World Boomerang Championships are in Asahikawa, Japan, July 7, 2006 to July 16, 2006...
* US$ 20,95 – http://www.boomerangs.com/aussiefever.html

[stan]

I know you can do that with a toy boomerang,
But what is the point of having it come back to you if its purpose
is hunting?
If it hits an animal, it drops.
If you throw it at an animal on the ground, and MISS,
will it come back to you?

Thanks for the link to the championship.

[stan]

Why aren't there atlatl contests in the olympics, for example.

For the same reason the athletes now wear shoes...

[/quote]

Funny, but we still have the javelin throw and archery and other "primitive" sports in the olympics.

Meanwhile, you'll have your hands full responding to daybrown's posts!!

[Rokcet Scientist]

[quote="stan"][...]If you throw it at an animal on the ground, and MISS,
will it come back to you?[/quote]

Not to me, but yes, a good Aboriginal hunter's boomerang throw that misses its mark indeed comes back to him. But it requires years of practice before you can do that. BTW, they usually carried 2 or 3 boomerangs.
There are/were also boomerangs for war and for big game (big red and grey kangaroos, e.g.). I had 2, once! They are about 70cm long, almost a kilo in weight, and made of hardwood, with razorsharp edges. They were intended to be able to kill a man with (or a Roo). Decapitate him. Impossible for us to throw because of the weight. They weren't supposed to come back. They just had the boomerang's aerodynamic properties to enable the thrower to control the flight as much as possible.

Yep, DB is handful...

[stan gilliam]

Well, here's a competition for kids in Alaska.
There are quite a few hobbyists, it seems.

[gunny]

What about my questions about the Americans origin of the atlatl> My questions were ignored. There is a national atlatl club with competitions.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[quote="gunny"]What about my questions about the Americans origin of the atlatl> My questions were ignored. There is a national atlatl club with competitions.[/quote]

Gunny, keep your shirt on! You sound positively paranoid. The reason your questions were 'ignored', as you interpret it, could be simply because no-one here has an answer. Which doesn't mean there isn't one, of course.
Or, simpler still: maybe you are too impatient! Wait a little! Give people time to read and compose an answer! Rome wasn't built in one day.

I posted my "Holocaust in America" theory well over a month ago. No major holes have yet been shot in it. That doesn't mean there won't be. Even if it takes years, decades!
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?t=70

After all, archaeology is about time. And LOTS of it!

[stan]

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:47 am    Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about my questions about the Americans origin of the atlatl> My questions were ignored. There is a national atlatl club with competitions.

Some of us are still in bed. There is nothing wrong your post or the other
corresondents.
I am waiting for the answer, myself.
I didn't try to ignore your question, I am just starting to think about it.

[stan]

Complete wooden atlatls with attachments have been found in dry cave sites in Utah, Nevada and Oregon, USA, dating to about 8,000 to 1,600 years ago. Atlatls have also been preserved in waterlogged conditions in Florida, and one made of yew wood, dating to 1,700 years ago, was dredged from the Skagit River in northern Washington State. In British Columbia and the Yukon wooden atlatl and dart fragments have been found eroding out of melting glaciers. One of the dart fragments dated to 4,000 years ago. An antler specimen dating to 2,000 years ago was found at the bottom of the freshly drained Quiltanton Lake in the southern Interior of British Columbia, east of Ashcroft. These finds confirm the existence of at least one local type of flat, unspurred, prehistoric atlatl. We can now be optimistic that these and future finds will provide new insights into the role of this unique kind of technology in the history of British Columbia.

THis is from the Royal Museum in British Columbia

http://www.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/hhistory ... tlatl.html

[Minimalist]

and one made of yew wood, dating to 1,700 years ago

I find that curious. Surely the bow had been developed by then and is a far superior weapon.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[quote="Minimalist"][quote]and one made of yew wood, dating to 1,700 years ago[/quote]

I find that curious. Surely the bow had been developed by then and is a far superior weapon.[/quote]

Sure. If you could afford one. And if you were a trained archer. Two if's. So most men couldn't and weren't. So archers were a minority. Most men used other weapons. The atlatl is one. Cheaper and easier to manufacture than bows and requires far less (supervised) training to master to a practically useful level: soldiering.

[stan]

Cheaper and easier to manufacture than bows and requires far less (supervised) training to master to a practically useful level: soldiering.

Rokcet, I don't understand this comment. We are talking about hunter-gatherers, aren't we?

In that context, what do you mean by soldiering, and why is a bow
more expensive than an atlatlatl?

I know you have an answer!

[stan]

http://www.internationalatlatlsociety.org