Secrets of the Aegean Apocalypse
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Minimalist
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If you make a call at Izmir, you should take the side trip to Ephesus. There is 5,000 years of history there. My father took me there when I was a kid, and tried to explain it to me, but I had no appreciation at the time.
Returning there is one of the big things left on my life's to do list
Bodrum is also a good spot for a beach weekend.
BTW: I got distracted and missed most of the show, but I caught the last 15 minutes. I think they made some good points that the power vacuum created by the Sea People had consequences to this modern day.
What did they have to say about the origins of the Sea People?
I think the DNA work will be very interesting.
We now know that the Etruscans came from Anatolia. Wouldn't it be ironic to find those Anatolian were descended from the mostly Greek Sea People?
Returning there is one of the big things left on my life's to do list
Bodrum is also a good spot for a beach weekend.
BTW: I got distracted and missed most of the show, but I caught the last 15 minutes. I think they made some good points that the power vacuum created by the Sea People had consequences to this modern day.
What did they have to say about the origins of the Sea People?
I think the DNA work will be very interesting.
We now know that the Etruscans came from Anatolia. Wouldn't it be ironic to find those Anatolian were descended from the mostly Greek Sea People?
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Minimalist
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[/b]Barracuda wrote:If you make a call at Izmir, you should take the side trip to Ephesus. There is 5,000 years of history there. My father took me there when I was a kid, and tried to explain it to me, but I had no appreciation at the time.
I think the itinerary is Athens to Istanbul to Ephesus to Rhodes to Crete to Santorini and back to Athens.
Returning there is one of the big things left on my life's to do list
Bodrum is also a good spot for a beach weekend.
BTW: I got distracted and missed most of the show, but I caught the last 15 minutes. I think they made some good points that the power vacuum created by the Sea People had consequences to this modern day.
What did they have to say about the origins of the Sea People?
That they don't really know. There was a suggestion that the Sea Peoples swept up new recruits as they advanced.
I think the DNA work will be very interesting.
We now know that the Etruscans came from Anatolia. Wouldn't it be ironic to find those Anatolian were descended from the mostly Greek Sea People?
Or that they were refugees from the Sea Peoples.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
And now we know that those theaters were designed so that the people in the high back row could hear the words.
When will we learn that the old timers were not as dumb as we think they must have been and we are not as smart as we think we are?
To bring it into the semi-modern day..
The SR71 is hands down the highest preforming airplane in current use.
It was designed with SLIDE RULES! The design guys did not even have four funcition caculactors at the time.
Every one of us reading this has more computer power sitting on their desk then the Space Shuttle has to guide it into orbit.
Old does not mean unknowing.
When will we learn that the old timers were not as dumb as we think they must have been and we are not as smart as we think we are?
To bring it into the semi-modern day..
The SR71 is hands down the highest preforming airplane in current use.
It was designed with SLIDE RULES! The design guys did not even have four funcition caculactors at the time.
Every one of us reading this has more computer power sitting on their desk then the Space Shuttle has to guide it into orbit.
Old does not mean unknowing.
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Minimalist
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I finally had a chance to watch this show. It was very good. The Sea People were a true holacaust in the eastern Med.
I was not convinced, however, that they were a loose confederation of unemployed mercenaries. I would like to hear more theories from the scienctific community. It's interesting that the scourge of the Sea People
coincides with the fall of Homers' Troy.
I was not convinced, however, that they were a loose confederation of unemployed mercenaries. I would like to hear more theories from the scienctific community. It's interesting that the scourge of the Sea People
coincides with the fall of Homers' Troy.
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Minimalist
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I don't think there is any sort of consensus, Beags. They can't even agree on where they originated. About all they seem to know for certain is that the Philistines, whom the Egyptians called the Peleset, had Hellenic style pottery when they landed in Canaan.
But even the Egyptians note that they were merely one faction of the Sea Peoples.
I've been convinced about the Sea Peoples taking out "Troy" ever since the destruction layers were found at the end of the 13th century. The diplomatic correspondence of the times says "the Sea People are coming!" Not..."watch out for the Mycenaens."
But even the Egyptians note that they were merely one faction of the Sea Peoples.
I've been convinced about the Sea Peoples taking out "Troy" ever since the destruction layers were found at the end of the 13th century. The diplomatic correspondence of the times says "the Sea People are coming!" Not..."watch out for the Mycenaens."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
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Rokcet Scientist
The Greeks are not identified per se. But then again, the Greeks were not recognized as one nation. They were a collection of "city states" that sometimes unified against a common enemy.
I've often thought about the many tiny kingdoms that made up the Aegean Sea. By 1200 BC their islands must have been terribly shrunken
by the rising sea levels. This may have made them desparate. Just thinking out loud.
I've often thought about the many tiny kingdoms that made up the Aegean Sea. By 1200 BC their islands must have been terribly shrunken
by the rising sea levels. This may have made them desparate. Just thinking out loud.
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Minimalist
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Okay.
As long as we are thinking out loud..... The vision I have for the Sea Peoples mirrors the Vikings, but its Vikings + Visigoths. The Vikings emanated from Scandinavia but there was no central control or authority directing them, certainly at first. Boatloads of raiders would hit a village, do their thing, and be gone before any effective response could be made.
These raids would have a long-term weakening effect on their target. IF, (big if) these raids were independently launched and spread out it would have precluded any joint effort to repel them. Everyone would have been protecting their own lands, first. I also have to wonder just how "urbanized" these "cities" were. Most of the population would have lived in scattered farming villages. The cities would have been for the King, the priests, the merchants and whatever bureaucracy was needed to support them.
Eric Cline's discussion of earthquake storms was interesting but there had to be more to it. People don't generally migrate after an earthquake and the second part of the Sea People analogy, the visigoths, is that the entire people seemed to be on the move. Egyptian reliefs show women and children along with the warriors. The Vikings didn't do that.
The one piece of the show that did not ring true was the military discussion. Yes, chariots were used but we know that when Ramesses II headed off to Kadesh his army consisted of 4 divisions of infantry. One suspects that only the nobility could afford a chariot and team and those nobles would also raise a company of foot soldiers to provide close protection.....king of like German panzergrenadiers who were trained to keep up with the tanks. The idea that these ancient empires would sustain large standing armies seems preposterous. The expense would have been ruinous.
Okay. Enough for now.
As long as we are thinking out loud..... The vision I have for the Sea Peoples mirrors the Vikings, but its Vikings + Visigoths. The Vikings emanated from Scandinavia but there was no central control or authority directing them, certainly at first. Boatloads of raiders would hit a village, do their thing, and be gone before any effective response could be made.
These raids would have a long-term weakening effect on their target. IF, (big if) these raids were independently launched and spread out it would have precluded any joint effort to repel them. Everyone would have been protecting their own lands, first. I also have to wonder just how "urbanized" these "cities" were. Most of the population would have lived in scattered farming villages. The cities would have been for the King, the priests, the merchants and whatever bureaucracy was needed to support them.
Eric Cline's discussion of earthquake storms was interesting but there had to be more to it. People don't generally migrate after an earthquake and the second part of the Sea People analogy, the visigoths, is that the entire people seemed to be on the move. Egyptian reliefs show women and children along with the warriors. The Vikings didn't do that.
The one piece of the show that did not ring true was the military discussion. Yes, chariots were used but we know that when Ramesses II headed off to Kadesh his army consisted of 4 divisions of infantry. One suspects that only the nobility could afford a chariot and team and those nobles would also raise a company of foot soldiers to provide close protection.....king of like German panzergrenadiers who were trained to keep up with the tanks. The idea that these ancient empires would sustain large standing armies seems preposterous. The expense would have been ruinous.
Okay. Enough for now.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
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Rokcet Scientist
I'm not sure it takes very much to 'tilt' a civilisation, leading to its wrecking, excuse me, demise. A whole people on the move, moving in, usurping public life, with their own very distinct set of morals and behavior, can wreak havoc on a society.
Just look at what's happening around the world right now. Lots of peoples on the move. Lots of serious friction in their adopted homelands. It doesn't take very much to send situations like that over the edge.
Watch the 'banlieux', the ghetto's, of France, or the 'hoods' of the US, or the 'favelas' of Brasil. Flashpoints with a short fuse. With potentially devastating long term effects for the very fabric of society.
The Sea Peoples simply sent each society they migrated to over the edge, and into a destructive downward spiral, then they moved on to the next affluent society to pillage. Like a swarm of leeches sucking the life blood from the host's civilisation.
And they still do.
It explains the relative absence of accounts of military battles. The people were (and are) their army.
Just look at what's happening around the world right now. Lots of peoples on the move. Lots of serious friction in their adopted homelands. It doesn't take very much to send situations like that over the edge.
Watch the 'banlieux', the ghetto's, of France, or the 'hoods' of the US, or the 'favelas' of Brasil. Flashpoints with a short fuse. With potentially devastating long term effects for the very fabric of society.
The Sea Peoples simply sent each society they migrated to over the edge, and into a destructive downward spiral, then they moved on to the next affluent society to pillage. Like a swarm of leeches sucking the life blood from the host's civilisation.
And they still do.
It explains the relative absence of accounts of military battles. The people were (and are) their army.
Last edited by Rokcet Scientist on Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Minimalist
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But what caused the Sea Peoples to begin migrating in the first place? That seems to be the big question.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin