Clovis/pre-Clovis

[Minimalist]

The buffalo is an example of modern man carrying out a near extinction possibility...along with whales and the dodo, etc.

But, I still can't think of an example of native HG groups having that destructive an impact on their own environments.

[Digit]

If the breeding stock is large enough and the predation below a certain level they couldn't be wiped out Min, frankly I can't see that Clovis was anywhere near numerous enough to have done it.

[Minimalist]

I agree. But I can't come up with even modern examples of HG groups hunting their primary food source to extinction.

I suppose it could happen if there were aggravating factors....such as a disease decimating a species and human hunters pushing it over the tipping point to extinction. That is not really what I am talking about.

The buffalo being slaughtered from trains just for sport is the ideal example of modern man simply killing for the sake of killing. The Indians effectively worshipped the spirit of the animals they killed.

[Beagle]

There was a report some time back suggesting that early man fought a war of extinction against the cave bear in Europe. That "war" went on for many thousands of years, and I personally think the Holocene extinction finally caused their demise.

[Minimalist]

A bear is a particularly capable opponent. Hard to imagine too many such skirmishes where there were not casualties on both sides.

And a cave bear was basically a tank with teeth and claws.

[Digit]

The idea of a war against the Cave Bear seems a little odd when you look at the reverence that seems to have been shown in some caves as I recall.

[Minimalist]

Not if its a question of who gets to use the cave. Bears are not known for sharing.

[Digit]

I imagine that's true Min.

[Beagle]

Yep, Digit, it seems to be a strange relationship. But Man and the Bear were both competing for the same shelter. If the bear had won, the history of man in Ice Age Europe would be pretty different. No doubt about the respect shown to the bear.

I'll find that article after while. It's a little interesting.

[Beagle]

I found the thread but the link has expired. Oh well.

[Leona Conner]

The first thing that comes to my mind is the bison. If not for gov't intervention, they would be extinct now. Massive herds of bison were a problem for the railroad companies, so they encouraged the wholesale slaughter.

Starved a lot of Plains Indians to death in the process.

Yeh, but there was a lot more moden men with rifles than Clovis men with spears. If we had had to use those, the bison would not have been almost extinguished.

[Minimalist]

Right, Leona. Besides, we have no evidence of any HG population which kills more game than it can use. They went hunting the way we go shopping, every couple of days. And they used as much of the kill as they could for the necessities of life. They didn't leave them to rot in the sun after shooting as many as they could.

[Beagle]

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007/0 ... 923_02.txt

But new evidence is calling this into question. Some historians suggest the first people came to this continent by both land and sea.

European prehistoric artifacts similar to ones in North America, such as Clovis points, have led some scholars to suggest that European prehistoric people crossed the Atlantic Ocean in boats, said Vrooman.

And research in Siberia, where the Bering land bridge supposedly originated, reveals no solid evidence of Clovis points originating there, he said.

Some archaeological sites in the Americas predate the land bridge.

From Archaeologica News.

[Digit]

Some archaeological sites in the Americas predate the land bridge.

Oh dear! There's another few reps to bite the dust.

[Cognito]

Some archaeological sites in the Americas predate the land bridge.

Well at least it is getting into the mainstream press. Who knows? Maybe textbooks will start carrying the same comments.