Drugs and Archaeology

[Forum Monk]

Just my opinion and take it for what its worth.

I am uneasy about the spread of discussions basically extolling the benefits of drug use as a tool for enlightment. It is now expanding into several threads. The discussion is not always relevent to archaeology and is a topic best suited to adults and not kids who may be reading these threads.

I think the discussion should be moved off the main archaeology forum and placed in a more controlled area.

[Minimalist]

I don't think we have a "controlled area," Monk.




Frankly, 'out of control' seems more our speed.

[Forum Monk]

Frankly, 'out of control' seems more our speed.

Yeah, but some of the topics seem way off from what Michelle calls "all things old, new finds and anything creditably archaeology related" Now I realize there may be some legitimacy to some of the discussions but not everyone who reads this is over the age of consent. And I think we need to be accountable in a culture that is already over-fascinated with the "virtues" of drugs and drug therapy...especially illegal drugs.

[john]

Just my opinion and take it for what its worth.

I am uneasy about the spread of discussions basically extolling the benefits of drug use as a tool for enlightment. It is now expanding into several threads. The discussion is not always relevent to archaeology and is a topic best suited to adults and not kids who may be reading these threads.

I think the discussion should be moved off the main archaeology forum and placed in a more controlled area.

Forum Monk -

You might as well include any and all "consciousness expanding" disciplines, including shamanism and religion, and science , in your argument.

I mean, who in their right mind would use science as a tool for enlightenment.

Yet they do.




john

[Frank Harrist]

Unclench a little, Momk.

[Forum Monk]

You might as well include any and all "consciousness expanding" disciplines, including shamanism and religion, and science , in your argument.

I mean, who in their right mind would use science as a tool for enlightenment.

Yet they do.

Come on John. Would you tell your 14 year old that science is not a legitimate means of enlightment while saying drug use is? Why not legalize these drugs and then offer the course at university? I am surprised you can't see the difference. But maybe you haven't been so "enlightened".

On the otherhand,

Unclench a little, Momk.

Maybe I am a little too clenched, Frank. I think discussing how drugs may have fueled an ancient economy or trade network is worthy discussion. Talking about taking drugs as a means of "enlightenment" belongs on a different board.

[john]

You might as well include any and all "consciousness expanding" disciplines, including shamanism and religion, and science , in your argument.

I mean, who in their right mind would use science as a tool for enlightenment.

Yet they do.

Come on John. Would you tell your 14 year old that science is not a legitimate means of enlightment while saying drug use is? Why not legalize these drugs and then offer the course at university? I am surprised you can't see the difference. But maybe you haven't been so "enlightened".

On the otherhand,

Unclench a little, Momk.

Maybe I am a little too clenched, Frank. I think discussing how drugs may have fueled an ancient economy or trade network is worthy discussion. Talking about taking drugs as a means of "enlightenment" belongs on a different board.

Forum Monk -

For your hypothetical 14 year old's enquiring mind,

I'll give you the interesting case of one

Galileo Galelei

Who came under the tender scrutiny of

The Spanish Inquisition for his

Statements concerning "scientific" enlightenment.

This, of course,

From the Catholic Church which vehemently considers

The consumption of the drug known as alcohol

In the form of wine

To be a sacrament.

So, does he or she choose

Religion + alcohol

Or simply science?


BTW, if I had a 14 year old around the house at present, my counsel would be to treat any supposed form of enlightenment, whether it be presented in the form of science, religion, drugs, whatever, with exactly equal fundamental suspicion, as my experience has been that enlightenment always comes from deep within the individual and works its way "out", and never is achieved by choosing an external thing or activity as the Creator of enlightenment within.

This is not to say that there aren't mental and physical disciplines which, used as tools, can help one achieve states of enlightenment.

However, the act of achievement, to me, is consistently a unique and solitary moment of individual will which comes about "all at once, and of itself" whether no effort or years of discipline have been expended.


hoka hey


john

[Forum Monk]

Of alcohol, religion and science, neither is unlawful at the moment, although some may meaningfully argue one or more should be. Clearly Galileo was attacked on the basis of a religious belief system. My objection is not based on any such "moral stance" as I do not believe in pushing my morality on anyone. I lived through the 60s and 70's and I do not necessarily condemn drug use under certain conditions, but I question their benefits and truly believe enlightment is better achieved in other ways... legal ways. Its a personal choice. But I also feel we have a responsibility to those we influence and this is the basis of my objection.

We are a nation obsessed with chemicals and find drugs the answer to so many of our daily problems. We are culturally conditioned to it and I see no good coming from telling a Ritalin and Zoloff laced generation that enlightenment can be achieved in fungi, herbs, gases, or manufactured chemicals.

Oh well. Time to "unclench", listen to some music, and relax. Perhaps a little "New World Man" by Rush, "Youth of a Nation" by P.O.D., "Hypnotise" by System of a Down and then "Cassie" by Flyleaf (a Texas band, Frank). Then I'll contemplate how much progress our enlightenment has bestowed upon us in the last 40 years.

- Peace.

[Minimalist]

If I'm not mistaken, peyote is legal for use in native-American rituals.

[kbs2244]

It is.
But you better have the DNA to prove you can pratice that religion.
No converts allowed.

[Forum Monk]

The funny thing is, the same standards were not applied when government money opened up to assist Native Americans. Especially for financial assistance in universities. Suddenly people were coming out of the woodwork claiming to be one/umpteenth native. It was a travesty considering how some legitimate claims continue to be denied mainly because native americans were forced to deny their true heritages in order to own land or gain inheritance rights.

[Minimalist]

The funny thing is, the same standards were not applied when government money opened up to assist Native Americans.

Depends on what you mean by "same standards", Monk. If you mean that there were different standards for school admissions versus peyote use, you would be correct.

If by "same standard" you mean using government money to assist well-heeled corporations such as universities and the banks who make student loans on one hand and drug companies who would regard peyote as a competitior, well, in that case you would be wrong.

Point of view is everything, you know.

[Forum Monk]

I would consider the first case, Min. The standards which are required by applicants in order to prove they are native american.

Applicant:
I think I qualify for financial aid as a descendant of a native american?

Administrator:
Really? Were one or more of your parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents native american?

Applicant:
- uh - well my great-grandfather told me he shook hands with an Indian once.

Administrator:
Great! Just sign here and here's your check. Your qualifications will be verified but we're so swampled with applications it will take years before we can make a definitive ruling.

Ok, it isn't really that messed up but a few years back there was a huge crush of people trying to prove ancestry from natives in order to achieve financial benefits. I don't believe DNA tests were part of the requirements. Lately the tribes, have aggressively been tightening the standards for tribal membership.

In most states, you can only use peyote/mescaline if you are a member of the Native American Church. Suspiciously, many of the ceremonies and rituals of this Church are 20th century inventions by Quannah Parker
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_Church ) who made this famous quote:

The White Man goes into his church and talks about Jesus. The Indian goes into his Tipi and talks with Jesus.

No doubt.

[Minimalist]

YOu already know that I'm a cynical old bastard, Monk.

[Digit]

Taking the broader term 'drugs' I personally would be suspicious of any form of drug induced 'enlightenment'.