Your mama is a Neanderthal!

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Rokcet Scientist

Your mama is a Neanderthal!

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

http://www.nytimes.com/
A Good Neanderthal Was Hard to Find

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Published: February 26, 2006

Maybe they just didn't have time to get to know each other.

The Basics: Not the End of the World After All (February 26, 2006)

Forum: Human Origins
The question of what Neanderthals and Homo sapiens might have done on cold nights in their caves, if they happened to get together and the fire burned down to embers, has intrigued scientists since the 19th century, when the existence of Neanderthals was discovered.

A correction in the way prehistoric time is measured using radiocarbon dating, described last week in the journal Nature, doesn't answer the enduring question, but it might at least help explain why no DNA evidence of interbreeding has been found: the two species spent less time together than was previously believed.

The old radiocarbon calculation is now known to be off by as much as several thousand years, the new research shows. That means that modern Homo sapiens barged into Europe 46,000 years ago, 3,000 years earlier than once estimated. But the radiocarbon dating under the new calculation also shows that their takeover of the continent was more rapid, their coexistence with the native Neanderthals much briefer.

The revised dates reveal an overlap between the species not of 10,000 or more years, as previously thought, but of only 2,000 to 4,000 in many places, perhaps 6,000 in others. The shorter overlap suggests that modern humans held a decisive advantage over Neanderthals after their arrival from Africa. Was that advantage cognitive, technological or demographic? Their personal ornaments and cave art, now seen to have emerged much earlier, are strong evidence for an emergence of complex symbolic behavior among the modern newcomers, a marked advance in their intelligence.

That doesn't mean they didn't interbreed with the Neanderthals.

As Katerina Harvati of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, points out, even the shorter length of coexistence was a long time. But it would have decreased the time available for cultural or genetic exchange.

"Since these two species may have been able to interbreed, as many closely related mammal species can," Dr. Harvati said, "a restricted coexistence interval may be easier to reconcile with the observed lack of Neanderthal genetic contribution to the modern human gene pool and with the paucity of convincing fossil evidence for hybridization."

The caves, it would seem, still hold their secrets.

Let's remember grandma fondly...!
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

I think we still have a tribe of them living down south, R/S.


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Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Rokcet Scientist

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

:lol: :lol: :lol: ROTFLMAO!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But I wish they were down south! 'Cause some of 'em are just one click away!!!
Guest

Post by Guest »

A midwife explained why the Neanderthals went extinct. More or less.

More, because the HNS neonate skull is shaped like an NFL football, and the HSS neonate like a sphere, with a larger cross section. Furthermore, the HNS females had more rigid skelitons with more simian like narrow hips.

So- while an HSS female could safely birth an HNS hybrid child, like say the one found in Portugal, The HNS wouldnt pass the hybrid thru the pelvis, and died trying. Even the HSS females sometimes had problems, and in fact, those lines which emerged in Europe, *still do*. Which is why Sykes. "The Seven Daughters of Eve", could find only 7 mtDNA lines among Native Europeans. (2 more since found in Finland) All the other lines died in child birth because of the hybridization process. Which is what you'd expect if you tried to hybridize any other two species.

Which left the Y Chromosome. and another far more complicated issue the Fundies dont want to think about. But there is no "moment of conception", but a period of time, during which sometimes *2* sperm are present before the ovum wall shuts down. If both are XX or YY, no biggie. but if one is not, then one of the common results is a hermaphrodite. (Are there two souls here?) And as we know from "The Sperm Wars" not all sperm travel at the same rate so that even if both sperm are male or female, they need not come from the same sperm donor.

And given the small gene pools both hominds lived in monogamy was *NOT* a good idea; women needed to maximize diversity. And as if this aint enough complexity, turns out DNA dont always just zip together like your jacket. No, sometimes like an old, worn, or damaged zipper, it will miss a tooth and leave a section hanging out there, And the gap may be filled with another chunk of DNA from another source, such as another sperm donor.

Agreed that there is no Neanderthal DNA... cause no mtDNA survived, and none of the Y chromosome has... so far as we know because no HSS Y chromosome will last that long either. You cant *get* a copy of the Y chromosome from Neanderthal remains.

But in as much as the Inuit have lived in the artic for nearly as long as HSS has been in Europe, they havent acquired nearly as many adaptations to the cold as the hybrids acquired from their Neanderthal forefathers. Shorter digits and forelimbs, bigger noses, bushy beards, lower melanin content.

Curiously, lower melanin tends to be with lower adrenalin and higher seratonin. The result is a more laid back personality with slower reflexes and duller senses... which however make it easier to sleep thru most of an Ice Age Winter, and handle the daytimes without cabin fever making the dudes go postal.

Because of their Neanderthal daddies, whiteboys can handle being inside out of the weather for months at a crack, and didnt mind the factory work. A lotta Avatars did factory work, but they didnt think while they were doing it. Course, they dont think any other time, so it wasnt a biggie.

The Magi also had the idea that sometimes a soul could take over an Avatar, and thereby change its mode of behavior. One can always hope. Course, sometimes souls leave a body comatose as well. Another issue the Fundies cant get their brains around.

I believe, that if we did FMRI brain scans, we'd see a constricted neural pathway from the Corpus Collosum to the Pre-Frontals. And when emotionally aroused, Pre-Frontal activity dramatically declines. Which is why their leaders work so hard to keep them emotionally upset.
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Barracuda
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Post by Barracuda »

My family comes from a region close to the Neander Valley and I am very board with very short arms and legs.

I must admit I was very disappointed when I found there is no evidence of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans....
Rokcet Scientist

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Barracuda wrote:My family comes from a region close to the Neander Valley and I am very board with very short arms and legs.
I wouldn't worry about it, Barra. But when you notice a nut and bolt in your neck you may want to get your head examined...
I must admit I was very disappointed when I found there is no evidence of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans....
But, as Guest pointed out, that doesn't mean there ain't no Neanderthal in modern humans. So, rejoice! I guess...
And the proof of the pudding is in the eating: just look at the photo minimalist posted!
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