Ancient ritual burial practices

rich · Post by **rich** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:14 pm

One other thing KB - they never mentioned the daughters of Adam and Eve so they theoretically could have had daughters before eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Just a thought.

kbs2244 · Post by **kbs2244** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:21 pm

Yes, a possibility.
But if they did have daughters, they wouldn’t count.
Inheritances, good or bad, were through the sons.
That is why women are so rarely mentioned in any of the genealogies.
Unless they are a strong example of faith in some way, they are pretty much ignored.

From a theological point of view, the custom of inheritances through the male side is interesting.
From the OT point of view, it started right at the start of humanity.
It had to be that way because if Adam stole perfection from God then it would take a perfect male human to repay the sin.
If inheritances were through the female side it would be impossible to have a future perfect human.
To be human you have to be born. To be born you need a mother, who is female.
With the “immaculate conception” Jesus was human, but did not have the inherited sin of Adam.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:03 pm

In Judaism KB, women could inherit equally with men.
My grandmother was treated as dead when she married out of the faith as her inheritance would then be dispersed amongst the Goyim.

rich · Post by **rich** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:11 pm

Now here's the thing - why would it be an offense to god for man to become as gods - which by the scripture he did - to wit - knowing good and evil. Now - did the serpent lie? God said "in what day so ever you shall eat of it you shall surely die the death". The serpent said "No, you shall not die the death for god knows that in what day you shall eat thereof your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
Now, Adam lived how long afterwards? Or were the children born before the "event"?

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:16 pm

Ah! The tale of the wandering Jew arises again!

rich · Post by **rich** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:43 pm

Ahhh - Ahasverus - I knew him well. Poor, poor, marked man living to the end. (sigh)

kbs2244 · Post by **kbs2244** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:33 am

Digit, I think we are talking pre-Judaism custom here.
The Romans brought in a whole lot of ‘liberal” ideas.
From a theological point of view the custom only had to last until the Messiah came.

Rich, you bring up two points;
What is wrong with humans knowing good and evil?
And how long is a “day”?

On the first, Probably nothing.
Otherwise the tree wouldn’t have been there.
The sin was most likely a matter of timing.
God had not yet said it was OK to eat from the tree.
In fact, they were told specifically not to eat from it.
Kind of like eating desert before dinner.

As to how long is a “day”? That it is a imprecise term is pretty evident.
I am sure we all remember our Grandparents saying “Back in my day...”
The Genesis account of the seven days of creation are pretty well proven not to be 24 hour days.
There are some who point to other scriptures that say that “a thousand years are as but a day to God” and use that as a rule.
It is interesting that of all the real long lived men mentioned, including Adam, none lived over a thousand years.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:38 am

Digit, I think we are talking pre-Judaism custom here.

Possible, but much in Judaism was inherited from earlier cultures. Abram already followed generally understood ways of life before becoming a Jew.

rich · Post by **rich** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:59 pm

Abram wasn't a Jew - they didn't get here until afterwards! He was their forefather as was he the forefather of the Muslims and Edomites. He would have been Chaldean or Urite. Supposedly born in Ur of the Chaldeans.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:08 pm

Abram was the first Jew surely. If not who was and what is the covenant between him and God?
If Abram didn't worshi[p the Jewish God then who the heck did he worship?

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:12 pm

Supposedly born in Ur of the Chaldeans.

But the Chaldeans did not move into the region until c 900 BC.

Oops.

rich · Post by **rich** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:27 pm

KB - you are correct in saying one day with the lord is as a thousand years, as shown by when they said Noah was given his name because in his day they shall have rest of their labors (huh - some rest - the flood). It was the Sabath - the day of the lord's rest. So the lord didn't lie in that Adam would die in that day, but because man's days are "short" days - neither did the serpent.
But to banish them from Eden simply for "eating dessert first" would be way too cruel a punishment - don't ya think? I think they were trying to point to something else - like "uh - now the slaves won't want to work at tending the garden. Let's throw them out"!
Either way I don't think they were meant to live forever.

rich · Post by **rich** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:51 pm

From Wiki, Min -

Abraham was born in the Chaldean City of Ur, Mesopotamia, to Terah, his father.

Of course they are merely stating tradition - - -

As far as Abram being Jewish - Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were the possible originators of the Judaic religion, but Abraham himself would've be a Chaldean - or at least he was supposed to be from there so - - -

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:53 pm

The only problem with 900 BC is that it blows the "age of the patriarchs" out of the water.

Then again, most non-biblical scholars have already given up on that as a historical period.

rich · Post by **rich** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:02 pm

I think whoever wrote or compiled the bible were trying to show an association with a very strong (and supposedly) magical culture in order to impress their followers at the time. And it may not even be that - maybe the timeline was purposely set back to imply a more ancient start to the system.