Ancient communication devices

[rich]

I like conch shells - they can be dated Which means if someone finds some really old ones near a place that back then would have looked like a harbor - -

[War Arrow]

Depends what you'd call ancient but the Mexica/Acolhua/Tecpanec Triple Alliance (or Aztecs if you like) reputedly had a far reaching network of couriers - paths with runners set apart by a few miles. The upshot of this was that a message could be sent to from Tenochtitlan in the morning, and would reach the Gulf coast by evening with each runner carrying said message a few miles. This is described in a few colonial sources (I think Diaz, Zorita and Mendieta - though could be wrong) though I'm really not sure how reliable the info is.

Wr Arrow -

Don't forget about the use of the Quipu, which the runners you mention often carried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu

http://agutie.homestead.com/files/Quipu_B.htm


hoka hey


john

Hmmm... Peru/Bolivia rather than Mexico but good point nonetheless. Anyone know if there's been any new ideas on how a quipu recorded information? I'd heard it was basically just a tally of sorts - but it seems like it might be difficult to say one way or the other.

[kbs2244]

I don’t know how long distance and for what reason you use the word “communication”
But from today’s news page on the concept of “rock music.”

http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action ... s&id=73015

I am sure they were trying to “say” something.

[john]

Depends what you'd call ancient but the Mexica/Acolhua/Tecpanec Triple Alliance (or Aztecs if you like) reputedly had a far reaching network of couriers - paths with runners set apart by a few miles. The upshot of this was that a message could be sent to from Tenochtitlan in the morning, and would reach the Gulf coast by evening with each runner carrying said message a few miles. This is described in a few colonial sources (I think Diaz, Zorita and Mendieta - though could be wrong) though I'm really not sure how reliable the info is.

Wr Arrow -

Don't forget about the use of the Quipu, which the runners you mention often carried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu

http://agutie.homestead.com/files/Quipu_B.htm


hoka hey


john

Hmmm... Peru/Bolivia rather than Mexico but good point nonetheless. Anyone know if there's been any new ideas on how a quipu recorded information? I'd heard it was basically just a tally of sorts - but it seems like it might be difficult to say one way or the other.

War Arrow -

To pull a quote.....

One of the most familiar quotations in the Canon is Holmes remark on the probable and the impossible, ". . . when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." (BERL) Implicit in this statement is the assumption that the ordinary and probable have already been excluded. Since Sherlock Holmes received cases after the public and private detectives in London failed, this was a valid assumption. Simple, ordinary cases did not reach Sherlock Holmes

Point in case.

It defies logic that the Quipu runners were only running numbers.

There had to be a parallel system for running explanation of the numbers.

Unless you posit mental telepathy

In which case running the numbers via quipu

Would have been unnecessary.

Quod Erat Demondstrandum.

Consider the Quipu as the

Microsoft Office of that Age.


Which is to say that it included at least Word and Excel.


The links I provided in my previous post

Provides at least a start ...........



hoka hey

john

[Ishtar]

Unless you posit mental telepathy

In which case running the numbers via quipu

Would have been unnecessary.

Quod Erat Demondstrandum.

Consider the Quipu as the

Microsoft Office of that Age.

Which is to say that it included at least Word and Excel.

hoka hey

john

But if you wanted a Flash demonstration, you'd have 'forest television'.

[Digit]

The Quipu had neither to run numbers nor letters nor words, only code.
Provided the sender and recipient were singing from the same Hymn book that was all that was required.
It would also have been more secure that way.

[War Arrow]

John - with you on that, though wish you had used a simile other than Microsoft office.

[woodrabbit]

Conch shells found their way to Tibet, which reflects a fair amount of intent and savvy on the part of someone(s).

As to the outdoor "echo" sites with paleo rock art, whether painted or "bruised" by another stone it seems the same was happening indoors, and would help explain the WTF factor of why paint here/there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25516181/

Analyzing the famous, ochre-splashed cave walls of France, scientists found that the most densely painted areas were also those with the best acoustics. Humming into some bends in the wall even produced sounds mimicking the animals painted there.

My hunch would be that the combination of painting an image while singing or toning, perhaps the animals name, call or bellow, in the right acoustic environment would be mesmerizing neurologicaly both to the maker and to an audience.

Same for the echoed pinging of a rock image being made, with the image appearing in combination with the sound of its own forming....

If you have ever drawn an image of something for the sole purpose of desire....this can be heady stuff.

Clearly this crosses threads here, but should be expected when a line gets drawn between "Anthropology" and ritual.

[john]

Conch shells found their way to Tibet, which reflects a fair amount of intent and savvy on the part of someone(s).

As to the outdoor "echo" sites with paleo rock art, whether painted or "bruised" by another stone it seems the same was happening indoors, and would help explain the WTF factor of why paint here/there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25516181/

Analyzing the famous, ochre-splashed cave walls of France, scientists found that the most densely painted areas were also those with the best acoustics. Humming into some bends in the wall even produced sounds mimicking the animals painted there.

My hunch would be that the combination of painting an image while singing or toning, perhaps the animals name, call or bellow, in the right acoustic environment would be mesmerizing neurologicaly both to the maker and to an audience.

Same for the echoed pinging of a rock image being made, with the image appearing in combination with the sound of its own forming....

If you have ever drawn an image of something for the sole purpose of desire....this can be heady stuff.

Clearly this crosses threads here, but should be expected when a line gets drawn between "Anthropology" and ritual.

Woodrabbit -

Don't forget the Shamanic, which

Resides neither in "Anthropology"

Nor "Ritual".

I think is fairly obvious that when a demonstrated cognitive state

Doesn't fit the Anthropological chains and fetters,

It gets tossed rather quickly into the dustbin of Ritual,

With the hope on the part of many

That it will be soon forgot.


hoka hey


john