Topper site stuff

rich · Post by **rich** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:50 am

From Archaeology.org news link:

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/st ... olina.html

So far, there have been two sets of artifacts found at Topper:

• Stone flakes and tools that date to the Clovis people, which history books say are the first Americans who arrived here 13,000 years ago via a land bridge from Asia.

• A fire pit that contained plant remains that date to 50,000 years ago, which could help prove Goodyear's theory about when humans lived here.

Sweet!!!!!!!!!

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:31 am

Goodyear has found 18 of these at his dig site.

18 examples of freezing and thawing according to the Club!

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:53 pm

Nah! It was grandad Clovis marking out sales plots for the future.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:08 pm

I'm a little confused about the time line here.

I was under the impression Topper had a layer of blackened soot or some such, underneath was Clovis and above, nothing until Redstone (archaic) artifacts show up 400 years later. So if the Clovis people arrive 13kya and the comet exploded 12.9kya or thereabouts, the Clovis period would have been very short lived.

Do I have the layering backwards and Clovis was on top of the "event" layer?

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:08 am

Looked the the pre-clovis chert pictures from Topper. I see why The Club is unhappy. None showed edge work that was shown. Has anything been found pre-Clovis that all agree with?

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:12 am

Perhaps if HE was here, he only crudely knocked off chunks for knives or points? Any verified HE stone usage worldwide, or did he use a sharp stick?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:24 pm

I was at Topper a year ago, and the article in the OP is misleading. The stratigraphy of Topper is roughly like so:

An upper layer of mostly debittage (fragments from the knapping process) and latter, historical points.

A second layer immediatly under that of middle and late paleo debris and an occassional tool.

Then, after slowly removing nearly 18 inches of earth, in which there is nothing, do we reach the clovis layer. Again, it is mostly debris from knapping and breakage, but Clovis tools are also found, especially handaxes.

Beneath that, at various depths in the Topper site, we find pre-Clovis artifacts. On the pleistocene terrace pit, down by the Savannah river, there are artifacts dated at 50,000+ yrs. old.

Throughout the complex, there is evidence of old firepits and hearths. The hearths were for thermal heating the chert, which makes it stronger. These show up as thick charcoal deposits. There is NOT a "black mat" at Topper like some other sites have that are associated with the Comet theory.

If there are any other questions, I'll try to answer 'em.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:28 pm

Then, after slowly removing nearly 18 inches of earth, in which there is nothing,

Does that correspond to the layer which Firestone attributes to the comet/asteroid strike and resulting dust clouds?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:58 pm

Yeah, that's the mystery Min. When the Clovis technology ended, the mammoths and other North American megafauna went extinct. And for a period of about 1,000 yrs. there was nothing being done at Topper. Then, a group known as the Redstone people were present.

The disappearance was sudden. You know the theories, but that's all we've got so far.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:40 pm

A thousand years is a long time. Nature can repair a lot of damage to an ecosystem in 1,000 years.

Any theory has to deal with all the evidence....and in this case an "absence of evidence" is evidence of something.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:22 am

The reports I have read said 400 years but why quibble over a half a millenium, eh? I think it a bit odd there is no evidence in the soil as some have suggested that fragments of the comet may have struck the Carolinas. Perhaps they weren't specifically doing any soil analysis? Beags obviously knows better than any of us.

It is clear, there was a Clovis factory of sorts at Topper and then it quite suddenly disappeared. I also checked on a passing statement Beags made somtime ago about the Waccamaw Indians being known as the "people of the falling star". Its true that is one possible explanation of the origin of the word Waccamaw. That's almost freaky.

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:04 am

It seems this COMET--which could explain the worlds background on a flood and other cosmic things in the verbal history worldwide should be investigated more than Firestone, Goodyear, Michelin, Or Goodrich has done. Would this be a neat phd project?