Philo's guide to decoding the Hebrew Bible

The study of religious or heroic legends and tales. One constant rule of mythology is that whatever happens amongst the gods or other mythical beings was in one sense or another a reflection of events on earth. Recorded myths and legends, perhaps preserved in literature or folklore, have an immediate interest to archaeology in trying to unravel the nature and meaning of ancient events and traditions.

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Post by Ishtar » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:35 am

john wrote:
Ishtar wrote:Well, I think we're going to have to do our usual, here, and agree to differ. :)

Except I will just say that shamanism isn't a belief system. There is no belief system attached to it.

Ishtar -


"No belief system attached to it".

Thus the Shamanic.

Thus the Bicameral

(remember the Bicameral?)

The belief system was created by people

Who wanted to attain,

And maintain,

Physical power over those

Who created things of economic value.

Thus is the continental divide





Take it anywhere you want........

hoka hey

I do remember the shamanic, John. And the knowledge your refer to is the Greek 'gnosis', which is so much more than the Latin 'science'.

But unfortunately I've been trolled by ignorance of anything outside of intellectual belief and science, or even that it could have any value.

So let's consult our compasses, reset our course and hoist the mainbrace ... er, whoops, sorry! Wrong thread ....

Anyway, these verses by the Persian poet, Rumi, are a good starting off point. They describe the experience of death. But at the same time, they also serve to provide a quite beautiful account of what the shaman experiences when he journeys from this dimension - which is all that death is, a journey from this dimension into the Other. It is death to this world and rebirth into another.

In fact, the only difference between death and the shamanic journey is that the shaman comes back.

So let us soar into the shamanic:

Gone to the Unseen

At last you have departed and gone to the Unseen.
What marvellous route did you take from this world?

Beating your wings and feathers,
you broke free from this cage.
Rising up to the sky
you attained the world of the soul.
You were a prized falcon trapped by an Old Woman.
Then you heard the drummer's call
and flew beyond space and time.

As a lovesick nightingale, you flew among the owls.
Then came the scent of the rose garden
and you flew off to meet the Rose.

The wine of this fleeting world
caused your head to ache.
Finally you joined the tavern of Eternity.
Like an arrow, you sped from the bow
and went straight for the bull's eye of bliss.

This phantom world gave you false signs
But you turned from the illusion
and journeyed to the land of truth.

You are now the Sun -
what need have you for a crown?
You have vanished from this world -
what need have you to tie your robe?

I've heard that you can barely see your soul.
But why look at all? -
yours is now the Soul of Souls!

O heart, what a wonderful bird you are.
Seeking divine heights,
Flapping your wings,
you smashed the pointed spears of your enemy.

The flowers flee from Autumn, but not you -
You are the fearless rose
that grows amidst the freezing wind.

Pouring down like the rain of heaven
you fell upon the rooftop of this world.
Then you ran in every direction
and escaped through the drain spout . . .

Now the words are over
and the pain they bring is gone.
Now you have gone to rest
in the arms of the Beloved.


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Post by seeker » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:13 am

Yeah, how dare that bastard seeker try to inject any sense of rationality into the discussion. What was he thinking?

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Post by john » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:31 pm

seeker wrote:Yeah, how dare that bastard seeker try to inject any sense of rationality into the discussion. What was he thinking?
Seeker -

Rationally, most likely.

It is the non-rational and the non-linear forms of understanding we seek.......

A ballad from Mr. Zimmerman:

"Well, Frankie Lee and Judas Priest
They were the best of friends
So when Frankie Lee needed more money one day
Judas quickly pulled out a roll of tens
And placed them on a footstool
Just above the plotted plain
Sayin', "Take your pick, Frankie Boy
My loss will be your gain".

Well, Frankie Lee, he sat right down
And put his fingers to his chin
But with the cold eyes of Judas on him
His head began to spin
"Would ya please not stare at me like that", he said
"It's just my foolish pride
But sometimes a man must be alone
And this is no place to hide".

Well, Judas he just winked and said
"All right, I'll leave you here
But you'd better hurry up and choose
Which of those bills you want
Before they all disappear"
"I'm gonna start my pickin' right now
Just tell me where you''ll be".

Judas pointed down the road
And said, "Eternity"
"Eternity ?" said Frankie Lee
With a voice as cold as ice
"That's right", said Judas Priest, "Eternity
Though you might call it Paradise"
"I don't call it anything"
Said Frankie Lee with a smile
"All right", said Judas Priest
"I'll see you after a while".

Well, Frankie Lee, he sat back down
Feelin' low and mean
When just then a passing stranger
Burst upon the scene
Saying, "Are you Frankie Lee, the gambler
Whose father is deceased ?
Well, if you are
There's a fellow callin' you down the road
And they say his name is Priest".
"Oh yes, he is my friend"
Said Frankie Lee in fright
"I do recall him very well
In fact, he just left my sight"
Yes, that's the one", said the stranger
As quit as a mouse.
"Well, my message is, he's down the road
Stranded in a house".

Well, Frankie Lee he panicked
He dropped ev'rything and ran
Until he came up to the spot
Where Judas Priest did stand
"What kind of a house is this", he said
"Where I have come to roam ?"
"It's not a house", said Judas Priest
"It's not a house, it's a home".

Well, Frankie Lee he trembled
He soon lost all control
Over ev'rything which he had made
While the mission bells did toll
He just stood there staring
At that big house as bright as any sun
With four and twenty windows
And a woman's face in ev'ry one.

Well, up the stairs ran Frankie Lee
With a soulful bounding leap
And foaming at the mouth
He began to make his midnight creep
For sixteen nights and days he raved
But on the seventeenth he burst
Into the arms of Judas Priest
Which is where he died of thirst.

No one tried to say a thing
When they carried him out in jest
Except of course, the little neighbor boy
Who carried him to rest
And he just walked along alone
With his guilt so well concealed
And muttered underneath his breath
"Nothing is revealed".
Well, the moral of the story
The moral of the song
Is simply that one should never be
Where ones does not belong
So when you see your neighbor carryin' somethin'
Help him with his load
And don't go mistaking Paradise
For that home across the road."

One more quote, from the 60's I believe;

"My karma just ran over your dogma."

hoka hey

"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

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Post by seeker » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:03 am

Without methodology you just end up flailing

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