Fractals; its time

[Minimalist]

Min seemed to get it, though.

I have a great sense of humor, though.

[Ishtar]

OK, I promise I'm going to get out BUT you have opened the door even wider. Show me where in your Nasa quote it says anything about holding the earth in place?

What ... and invite another of your 'witty withdrawals'?

This is a wide and diverse forum, Grumps, and there are many different subjects under discussion. Some of them don't appeal to me, and so I just stay out of them. I don't feel the need to go in and comment on them, as I'd have nothing useful to add and also nothing to prove.

This part of the forum is not about anyone trying to prove anyone else right or wrong, not least because we are taking a walk on the wild side and giving ourselves a bit of licence to go into a sort of systemic free fall and see what comes out, based on our experiences in these sorts of fields ... I'm talking about the shamanic, the quantum, the fourth dimension ... these are different names for the same thing. Another useful concept here would be the 'subjective' working with the 'objective', which would be anathema to the old science.

For myself, I am a shaman and have studied mythology for more than 30 years. And I'm enjoying seeing how my own experiences in these fields are now being given a language for the 21st century by the new sciences that are soaring like phoenixes from the ashes of the Newtonian viewpoint.

I couldn't put it better than John, so I'm going to repeat what he said. If we need a Mission Statement for these kinds of threads, so everyone's clear on what we're trying to achieve here, then this must be it:

Western Science is taking its first tentative steps

To the comprehension that "ancient, intuitive knowledge"

Could probably kick its ass

With one hand tied behind its back.

Needless to say, Western Science sees this

As a competition.

Power, politics, economics, religion.

The "lions and tigers and bears, o my" approach

Of contemporary science is designed to be scary.

As a matter of fact, I regard the tale of the Wizard of Oz

To be an absolutely marvelous metaphor

For the present contretemps between

Hundreds of thousands of years of vernacular, intrinsic,

Intuitive, and incredibly aware culture (Dorothy et al.)

And the clanking, gear-grinding "scientific method"

Of the last couple millennia (the Wiz).

Kinda like comparing a sailboat to a bulldozer.

The signature moments of beauty

Come when certain people,

Whether they be Scientist or Shaman,

Realize that this sort of knowledge is

Both gift and discipline,

And not political birthright enforced by

Intellectual and spiritual intimidation.

[Grumpage]

Ish: I just don't understand your reply. Your philosophy of knowledge/life, the scope, purpose or relevance of these forums is not at issue here, at least not for me.

I simply wanted to know where in your Nasa quote it says anything about holding the earth in place? Goodness me, I didn't want a lecture about something else that I didn't ask about.

[Ishtar]

It's not in the NASA quote. The NASA quote was to give you an example of what spacecraft are reporting back, new information about electro-magnetic forces not previously known to modern day science.

If you go back to my post, you'll find that I say:

...here's a video describing the views of plasma physicists that electromagnetic energy is a more powerful force than gravity in 'space', another misnomer....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1316220374

Perhaps I should add that the illustration is from the plasma physicists, not the NASA scientists.

[Grumpage]

Ish: Thank you for answering my question.

I had already checked out your other reference (the link) and being reluctant to sit for an hour watching the video I wandered through the website trying to get some kind of handle on what they were proposing. From what I could make out they are, amongst other things, suggesting that gravity does not explain the dynamics of the universe and they think an 'electric universe' does a better job. Also, I picked up somewhere that this is more applicable to the formation of astronomical bodies than to their final (ie current) status. However, I could easily have got that wrong as both the site and the science are complicated and its subject is highly technical.

I came away, not with an enthusiastic embrace of these new ideas (like yourself), but helpless in the face of my inability to to do anything more than read what they say and nod like a donkey. Not having studied physics, astronomy, cosmology etc I find it impossible to even think about these subjects in any sensible or coherent manner. I assume you have carried out such study.

[Ishtar]

I came away, not with an enthusiastic embrace of these new ideas (like yourself), but helpless in the face of my inability to to do anything more than read what they say and nod like a donkey. Not having studied physics, astronomy, cosmology etc I find it impossible to even think about these subjects in any sensible or coherent manner. I assume you have carried out such study.

I have studied those subjects at some length, and how different peoples throughout history perceived and expressed them. But I wouldn't consider myself an expert.

They didn't used to be separate, btw. If you studied 'God' in 3,000 BC India, you studied all those subjects as one.

However, more importantly, why I'm so interested in these new scientific ideas is, as I explained before - and it wasn't meant to be a 'lecture' but an 'explanation' - because my understanding of 'how stuff works', according to my shamanic experiences and my study of mythology, seem to be dovetailing in with them.

What I learned in my maths, physics and chemistry lessons at school was a strange dogma imposed on me from above, that I had to make room for in my head. There was no dovetailing of existing knowledge and experience there!

So I'm fascinated by the texture of this new dovetailing.

However, I doubt that we'll ever be able to say 'Yes, at last. This is definitely the truth'. The way the universe is set up, imo, almost makes that an impossibility. We've all experienced hubris - maybe that's why 'hubris' and 'human' have the same root, 'hu'. Maybe to be human is to experience hubris, as we learn from our mistakes, time and time again.

[kbs2244]

Gee,
I am kind of disappointed.
After John pointed out that it may be science crossing over to
"Mythology, Ritualisms, Traditions and Folklore"
instead of everything going in my suggested opposite direction,
I was expecting a "Great Circle" argument from somewhere.
(Or at least a pendulum.)

[john]

Gee,
I am kind of disappointed.
After John pointed out that it may be science crossing over to
"Mythology, Ritualisms, Traditions and Folklore"
instead of everything going in my suggested opposite direction,
I was expecting a "Great Circle" argument from somewhere.
(Or at least a pendulum.)

kbs224 -

Think "expanding point cloud"

Rather than the other two.

An expanding point cloud is

Neither circular nor pendulous.

Ishtar's references to "The God Particle"

Are particularly interesting w/reference

To this line of perception,

Because it pulls the normal three dimensional conceptualization

Of the Point Cloud out into

Multiple dimensions,

I don't know how many.

Yet.


hoka hey


john