Archaeologica.org

I have heard several native american creation myths which involve the first man and woman emerging from a cave which leads under a body of water or a river. The Caddo myth goes something like this; The first man and woman emerged from a cave which led under the Red river. The man carried a drum and some tobacco and a pipe and fire, the woman carried corn and a pot (I think, I'm writing this from memory.) There are other myths which follow a similar pattern. Does anyone know of other similar myths? Why do you think they all (or several of them) have this particular myth? Is it possible that (and I know this is really weird) maybe some people migrated here through caves under the seas, back when water levels were lower? Yes I know this is pretty far out there, but it just keeps naggin at my mind about the cave under the body of water. Most myths do have some basis in fact. I think this could be a good discussion if we can come up with a few more myths along those lines. ( Yeah my mind works in strange and convoluted ways.)

Frank Harris wrote:I have heard several native American creation myths which involve the first man and woman emerging from a cave which leads under a body of water or a river. The Caddo myth goes something like this; The first man and woman emerged from a cave which led under the Red river.

Is it possible that (and I know this is really weird) maybe some people migrated here through caves under the seas, back when water levels were lower?

I believe the Paiute had a similar belief and early humans in France seemed to have placed a great symbolic importance in caves also. Maybe they thought of them as wombs.

Sorry but caves under the ocean just don't make sense.

I think the Apaches and others had a clear notion of the underworld, which of course has caves and water in it.

In studying Geronimo, i read that the Apaches didn't eat fish because they were associated with the evil underworld.
That really surprised me, because life was hard for them, paricularly since the American Civil War.

Is it possible that the memory of the crossing from Asia or wherever was regarded as a dark time, kind of like the Exodus of the Jews, and that
coming out of that period is symbolized by the emergence from the ground?

If anyone is interested... take your pick.

http://www.indians.org/welker/legend.htm

Commanche Creation Story

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"One day the Great Spirit collected swirls of dust from the four directions in order to create the Commanche people. These people formed from the earth had the strength of mighty storms. Unfortunately, a shape-shifting demon was also created and began to torment the people. The Great Spirit cast the demon into a bottomless pit. To seek revenge the demon took refuge in the fangs and stingers of poisonous creatures and continues to harm people every chance it gets."

Sounds vaguely familiar.

http://www.crystalinks.com/nativeamcreation.html

here is another link to indian creative myths. the different creative myths do not bother me for they are like the flood stories that abound throughout the world. they all had one source and over the years all civilizations changed their stories according as they believed.

(of course my one source will differ from others beliefs)

We know....we know.

Chuck A. Walla wrote:

Frank Harris wrote:I have heard several native American creation myths which involve the first man and woman emerging from a cave which leads under a body of water or a river. The Caddo myth goes something like this; The first man and woman emerged from a cave which led under the Red river.

Is it possible that (and I know this is really weird) maybe some people migrated here through caves under the seas, back when water levels were lower?

I believe the Paiute had a similar belief and early humans in France seemed to have placed a great symbolic importance in caves also. Maybe they thought of them as wombs.

Sorry but caves under the ocean just don't make sense.

Well it don't make sense to me either, but there are lots of them with that same theme. Coming out of a cave under a water source. Just wondering why.

Frank, I'm a little surprised this is all you have to say about it, given your interest in the Caddo.
You've been tantalizing us for months by saying, "Now, if we ever start talking about the Caddo, I can really contribute."
Maybe this is a good time to lay something out for us to discuss.
I'm sure it'll be interesting.

nydegger wrote:Frank, you twit. It's a birth.

Friend of your's, Frank?

nydegger wrote:Frank, you twit. It's a birth.

Well duh! I know that, but so many of them are similar that I think it's more than that. In the myth it's a man and a woman. The man has fire and tobacco. The woman has maize and a drum. (I don't remember exactly and I don't have my book here, could be the other way round) So they were born fully grown and with up to date technology, for their world.
The Caddo also had another rather quirky "religion". It involved twins who communicated with the great spirit and then with the people through a go between priest. I'll get into it later. I'm at work and don't have time to concentrate right now. Here's a link to a twin story. I haven't read it so it may not be the same one. More later.

http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/lore119.html

Try www.magictails.com/creation. It has myths from around the world, but a lot of them are N.A.

I didn't have any luck with that link, Leona. I went to their homepage and found this one.

http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

Below see the Haida Creation Myth in scupture-link to story



http://www.collectionscanada.ca/settlem ... 1.2-e.html

Fantastic sculpture!
Thanks, Sam.

A long time ago i read a book of Native American mythology.
I felt at the time that, the stories were improvised and lacked much
consistency. It seemed that the story tellers latched onto some
old ideas and then made up anything they thought of to explain how things got to be the way they are.

If the native Americans had common ancestors, and the creation myths had really been preserved intact, you would think that
the stories would be more consistent.

I have always felt some suspicion of the accuracy of oral history going back more than a few generations. If Homer had not written down the stories of the Iliad and Oddyssey, would they have been preserved to this day? If so, how different would they be?

It seemed that the story tellers latched onto some
old ideas and then made up anything they thought of to explain how things got to be the way they are.

Roughly how we came to have the bible.