Archaeologica.org

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandte ... eated.html

Roy.

Didn't Neanderthals manage to survive through several glacial periods....with their associated warming periods?

You're being logical again Bob. I've told about that before!

Roy.

Sorry.

Seriously though, how do these people manage to miss/ignore the obvious?

Roy.

Well, HN was around for a long time. Surely the early HN was a bit different that the late. Perhaps they really did adapt to a fringe climate. By the end of the Ice Age (or the beginning of the current interstadial if that is all it is) they may have simply been too well adapted for the cold. However, i would think if that were true then they would have just moved farther north.

they would have just moved farther north.

Again, a logical deduction, after all, the animals they are supposed to have hunted did.

Roy.

And....the humans who were better suited (apparently) to the heat were coming in from the south. Yep, a trek to the north makes sense.

Too bad the last Neanderthal's died out in Spain. That kind of makes it look like they were trying to stay warm.

I love this forum!

Roy.

Bring us your theories!

My personal one Min is that they didn't die out as such, just interbred with HSS.

Hat, coat, flak jacket, door!

Roy.

Seriously though, how do these people manage to miss/ignore the obvious?

Ignorance, perhaps?

My personal one Min is that they didn't die out as such, just interbred with HSS.

Roy, the obvious is being missed. With a significant human influx into a sparsely populated area, what could we expect? Neanderthals apparently had a stagnant population, counting no more than about 15,000 of them in all of Eurasia at 40Kya. By the end of the LGM the world population of HSS is estimated at about 4 million, the same as at the LGM onset about 24Kya.

The best estimate of HSS world population at 40Kya is from 1 to 2 million. Faced with a massive influx into Eurasia, why would we expect Neanderthals to survive the experience? All hybridization traces would have been washed out over a few thousand years.

On the basis of sheer numbers Cog that argument is irrefutable, BUT, at certain parts of their range HSN would have out numbered HSS, exactly as the NA Indians dominated at the frontier. This despite the fact that within the continental US they were numerically inferior.
As regards the loss of HSN genes over time there is evidence in modern populations to support this, BUT if blonde and red hair came from HSN, and their proportions within current populations are decreasing, this would suggest that HSS genes are dominating HSN but not yet completely.
I have, as yet, seen no suggestion of blue eyes or red or blonde hair OOA.
I wonder if we will have a guaranteed result on this debate?

Roy.

PaulMarcW has started a thread in New World which is going to get into this eventually but anyway, I'll ask the obvious question here.

BUT if blonde and red hair came from HSN

If we accept that then we accept the idea of interbreeding but why do we not see Swedes and Norweigians born with curly black hair. Even if the gene is recessive it should still pop out every once in a while. No?

http://images.google.com/images?sourcei ... 1&ct=title

Nuff said?
Anyway Min, Mendel's laws would still apply mate.

Roy.