Prehistory is about to change! (Politics)

[Minimalist]

Turning your attention back to the Labour Party, I see!

[Digit]

Can't avoid it Min, they may be dead but the corpse is causing a stink!

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I'm not so sure you've got a better alternative, Roy. Unless you guys would embrace a coalition model. But all of your parties are far too conservative for such foreign 19th century modernities... 'Powersharing' is a dirty word in Anglo-Saxon politics. 'Winner takes all' is the familiar m.o.

[Digit]

With a largely unelected governing in Brussels I doubt that power sharing a good definition.
Moscow has described the EU as the new Soviet.

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

With a largely unelected governing in Brussels I doubt that power sharing a good definition.
Moscow has described the EU as the new Soviet.

The EU is governed by a democratically elected EU parliament and democratically elected heads of government. Including yours, Roy.
Got a beef? Talk to your representative EU parliament members and/or your representative national parliament members, and/or your representative (head of) government!
I.o.w.: plenty checks and balances IF YOU APPLY THEM. If you don't, and only complain, then – yes – you have a new Soviet, but entirely of your own making.

Since when do you use Russian standpoints to justify your points?
Moscow has described dissidents as enemies of the state too...

[Minimalist]

The EU is governed by a democratically elected EU parliament and democratically elected heads of government.

Is it "governed" at all, or does it just sit around and act important?

[Minimalist]

Moscow has described dissidents as enemies of the state too...

So did Bush....and Nixon.

[Digit]

Without a doubt RS you will correct me if I err.
EU law is formulated, not by our MEPs, but by the Council of Ministers, correct?
How many of them did you elect?
If I follow your advise do you think that will change?
In the past only force has ever removed such an undemocratic assembly, correct?
What you said about Moscow is correct, so they know what they are talking about.
Would you care for an unelected president, 'cos that's what you are gonna get, and how do you get rid of him, short of a bullet?

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

The EU is about to appoint not a president like Obama is executive president of the United States. The EU is about to get a chairperson (a.k.a. 'president') of the council of heads of governments of member states. A primus interpares at best. A mere gavel wielder. Not an imperial head of state like the president of the USA (publicly, because IRL he's a puppet). The other 26 heads of government will see to that.

[Digit]

And the Lisbon treaty, after many years, is giving MORE authority to MEPs, how much is that?
What happens to the law making power of the unelected Council of Ministers.
You realise that the EU has not had its accounts signed off by the auditors since God knows when due to corrupton? Does this not bother you? Do you believe that will alter, post Lisbon?
Whilst you're thinking about let me ask you the same question I ask every pro European, what are the advantages of a Federal Europe over 26 nation states?

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Without a doubt RS you will correct me if I err.
EU law is formulated, not by our MEPs, but by the Council of Ministers, correct?
How many of them did you elect?

None, Roy. Because we never elect ministers – people. We elect parties. The parties that win form a coalition government. The parties that win put forward candidates for ministers in that coalition government. Including the minister(s) that represent them in the EU council of ministers.

If I follow your advise do you think that will change?

No, and that is precisely the idea: this system is expressly designed to ensure that national governments need not to give up any of their sovereignty. Courtesy of the anti-EU lobby, thank you very much.

In the past only force has ever removed such an undemocratic assembly, correct?

Are you advocating assassinating political office holders you do not like, Roy...?

[Rokcet Scientist]

what are the advantages of a Federal Europe over 26 nation states?

Enduring peace and prosperity.

Do you realise that the past 60 years have been the (relatively) quietest, most prosperous, and war-free 60 year period in millennia of European history? Thanks to NATO and the EU (and predecessors). I.o.w. thanks to working together, instead of against eachother. Thanks to cooperation instead of competition!

The EU is a magnificent, unprecedented political experiment in the history of mankind: we're trying to develop a superpower 'state' by voluntarily (i.o.w. without war) uniting countries and peoples to improve living conditions for all. And so far, so good. The results exceed our wildest dreams. And the prospects are good. This experiment will – I hope – be on-going for centuries to come. Continually finetuning.

[Digit]

Are you advocating assassinating political office holders you do not like, Roy...?

No, and that doesn't answer my question.

Enduring peace and prosperity.

So without the EU war is inevitable! The EU didn't do a great deal in Bosnia did it?

To suggest that without the EU Europe would be in flames does not say much for Europeans does it? Can't be allowed out on their own without a guardian to keep them under control.? As regards prosperity, neither Norway nor Switzerland look like they are about to go broke do they?
Experiment? Indeed, let's hope it doesn't explode. Are you therefore of the opinion that if the EU broke up tomorrow world war three would result?
Oh, and by the way, don't try and tell me that the various governments are not now competing with each other.

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

The EU is governed by a democratically elected EU parliament and democratically elected heads of government.

Is it "governed" at all, or does it just sit around and act important?

Good point! It's time the EU threw its weight around a bit more. But the EU would have to agree about that amongst themselves first. Which would lead to bickering at least, if not nastier. That would threaten the peace. A risk most don't like to run. So they "just sit around and act important" instead, because that's safer...

[Minimalist]

Same as the U. S. Senate.....