HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters

Post Reply
Ishtar
Posts: 2631
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:41 am
Location: UK
Contact:

HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Ishtar »

Guys,

Vindication ... for everything we here, and on Ishtar's Gate, have ever said on this matter.

Tools point to early Cretan arrivals
Evidence for the world’s earliest seafaring has emerged from an archaeological survey in Crete. Tools of Lower Palaeolithic type, at least 130,000 years old, have been found on the Greek island, which has been isolated by the Mediterranean Sea for at least the past five million years, so that any human ancestors must have arrived by boat. At this date, they would have been of a pre-modern species: the earliest Neanderthalers or even Homo heidelbergensis, the species to which Boxgrove Man belonged, are among possible contenders, but no such remains have so far been found on Crete.

“The early inhabitants of Crete reached the island using sea craft capable of open-sea navigation and multiple journeys — a finding that pushes the history of seafaring in the Mediterranean back by more than 100,000 years and has implications for the dispersal of early humans,” Professor Curtis Runnels said. The oldest uncontested marine crossing until recently was from Indonesia to Australia, dating to perhaps 60,000 years ago and made by anatomically modern humans of our own species, Homo sapiens, although we now know that earlier settlement on the island of Flores in Indonesia also necessitated a sea-crossing.

Professor Runnels, the Palaeolithic expert in the survey team, said that the investigation was carried out along the southwestern coast of Crete near the town of Plakias, facing Libya more than 200 miles to the south. These first Cretans may have crossed the Libyan Sea rather than island-hopping through the Cyclades from mainland Greece. Recent finds of what are claimed to be Palaeolithic tools from the island of Gavdos, off the south coast of Crete, would support this southern approach.

The survey has focused on the area from Plakias to Ayios Pavlos, including the Preveli Gorge, and has recovered more than 2,000 stone artefacts from 28 sites; the early tools were found at nine of these, eight in the area between Plakias and Preveli. “The existence of Lower Palaeolithic artefacts in association with datable geological contexts was a complete surprise: until now there has been no certain evidence of Lower Palaeolithic seafaring in the Mediterranean,” Professor Runnels said.
There's more of the article here

As Cogs just said, suddenly Valsequillo doesn't seem so beyond the fringe anymore.

We're discussing it on Ishtar's Gate here

I also have the two papers this story was based on:

Kopaka, K. & C. Matzanas.Palaeolithic industries from the island of Gavdos.2009

Mortensen, P. Lower to Middle Palaeolithic artefacts from Loutro on the south coast of Crete. 2008


So please PM me if you want me to email them to you.
Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16045
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Minimalist »

We had a thread on this last week,

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewt ... =10&t=2428


but it is still refreshing to see that more and more people are coming around to the idea that navigation, coastal or otherwise, is not a strictly modern accomplishment.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
E.P. Grondine

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by E.P. Grondine »

You would not believe the amount of crap I took over

1) Homo "Heidelbergensis" as ancestral to Neanderthal and Sapiens
2) Homo "aquaticus"
3) Early trans-Pacific migration by boat by B and D mt DNA haplogroups
4) The Algonquin ancestors being maritime peoples

Prior to this find, all that I could point to was man's arrival in Australia. I hope it holds up.

IMO, this probably represents hominids from SE Asia returning west.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16045
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Minimalist »

Oh, I can imagine.

The Beringia Walking and Gardening Society never tolerated criticism!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
User avatar
Digit
Posts: 6618
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Digit »

The Beringia Walking and Gardening Society never tolerated criticism!
I'll have you know they are a fine body of men! :lol:

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16045
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Minimalist »

They probably need a few women.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
uniface

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by uniface »

From the tone of their stuff, some of them likely are. :mrgreen:
Rokcet Scientist

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Minimalist wrote:They probably need a few women.
That would probably be their first.
Rokcet Scientist

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Ishtar wrote:Guys,

Vindication ... for everything we here, and on Ishtar's Gate, have ever said on this matter.

Tools point to early Cretan arrivals [...]
It's only part-vindication. We are waaay ahead of 'm: if Meganthropus paleojavanicus lived on Java, 1,57 Mya, then he had either walked there, or he sailed there (discounting airflight and ballistic travel for a minute... :lol: ). Take your pick. But one of them must have happened. And it depends on the pre-1,57 Mya sea levels. What, exactly, were those? We need precise data on those sea levels. Throughout the past e.g. 10 million years. But it's got to be 'high definition' data. We really need to know per millennium! what those sea levels were in order to be able to juxtapose and interpret 'm...
A tall order.

But consider the terrain: below's a screenshot (Google Earth) showing the south-east Asian land mass, islands, and, in light blue, its continental plain. And a piece of Oz, and its continental plain.
All that light blue stuff, now submerged, was dry land when sea levels were 400 feet lower! Hominids, and other fauna, and flora, could simply walk or creep overland from one end to the other! No seafaring neccessary. But later – when? – that plain flooded, in stages. Some fast, some slow. And we need to get a good, detailed handle on the timeline of that process to interpret its consequences for the hominid diaspora.

Image

All that against the background that this is one of the most volcanically and tectonically active parts of the global mantle since Oz' continental plain bumped into it! This is were Toba and Krakatoa happened! Multiple times. This is where they have hundreds of volcanoes. Many dozens of which are active today!

Image
And that, again, is data for the holocene only. We need the same, preferably more detailed, for the latter half of the Miocene.

Image
Last edited by Rokcet Scientist on Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
hardaker
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:16 pm

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by hardaker »

Hi EP,
This is a 1998 link to an intro to the preHobbit Flores Is. discoveries during the 90s. 800-880k dates, unquestionable tools, with island bio-assemblages, and never connected to mainland for many millions of years. Island hopping for sure, but still, the flores Straits and others in the hood are treacherous now, probably back then. At any rate, further searches will provide a lot more data.
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/image ... st_hom.htm
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
Rokcet Scientist

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

hardaker wrote: [...] never connected to mainland for many millions of years. [...]
That is an easily expandable concept. Too easily. Could be interpreted in any of desired ways. How many millions of years would that be exactly then? 3 million? 10 million? 100 million? Exactly when did that continental plain flood? In what timespan(s) and/or phases? At what speed? Etc. etc... Or, approached from the opposite side: since when, exactly, have those islands been real is(olated)lands?
Because I know one thing for sure: the flooding of the erstwhile dry SE Asian continental plain did happen at some time! Any inferences are completely dependent on when and how that happened.
Last edited by Rokcet Scientist on Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E.P. Grondine

Re: HE had boats and navigation skills 130,000 years ago

Post by E.P. Grondine »

hardaker wrote:Hi EP,
This is a 1998 link to an intro to the preHobbit Flores Is. discoveries during the 90s. 800-880k dates, unquestionable tools, with island bio-assemblages, and never connected to mainland for many millions of years. Island hopping for sure, but still, the flores Straits and others in the hood are treacherous now, probably back then. At any rate, further searches will provide a lot more data.
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/image ... st_hom.htm
Thanks. Given the amount of crap that was slung at me by some advanced apes for suggesting mankind's later evolution in
SE Asia, that is quite nice to know. I wish I had known it earlier, but it is amazing how hard data that conflicts with theories is often ignored/suppressed.

Now if the palaeo-anthropologists will just get their nomenclature together... but that involves dominance structures in advanced apes.
Post Reply