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The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:52 am
by Minimalist
http://www.rollstonepigraphy.com/?p=56
6. Those stating that the Qeiyafa Ostracon is written in the Hebrew language are probably stating more than the data allow. Among the words that have been mentioned in various places (publications, blogs, etc.) as demonstrative of Hebrew are the following:
Khirbet Qeiyafa being the alleged fort found on the road between Philistia and Jerusalem.
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:31 pm
by circumspice
Minimalist wrote:http://www.rollstonepigraphy.com/?p=56
6. Those stating that the Qeiyafa Ostracon is written in the Hebrew language are probably stating more than the data allow. Among the words that have been mentioned in various places (publications, blogs, etc.) as demonstrative of Hebrew are the following:
Khirbet Qeiyafa being the alleged fort found on the road between Philistia and Jerusalem.
Good article. Thanks for posting the link.
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:43 pm
by Minimalist
I picked up these two translations....from obviously different sources... of the inscription.
A. Translation on John Hobbins’ website:
1 Do not do [anything bad?], and serve [personal name?]
2 ruler of [geographical name?] . . . ruler . . .
3 [geographical names?] . . .
4 [unclear] and wreak judgment on YSD king of Gath . . .
5 seren of G[aza? . . .] [unclear] . . .
B. Translation “provided by the University of Haifa”:
1 you shall not do [it], but worship the [Lord].
2 Judge the sla[ve] and the wid[ow] / Judge the orph[an]
3 [and] the stranger. [Pl]ead for the infant / plead for the po[or and]
4 the widow. Rehabilitate [the poor] at the hands of the king.
5 Protect the po[or and] the slave / [supp]ort the stranger
It points up the astonishing difficulty in making a translation and also (apparently) the fact that people cannot even agree what the words are.
It reminds me of the Gabriel Revelation Stone controversy touched off by Prof. Israel Knohl.
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:12 am
by Ishtar
Min, thanks for sending this over to us. His point, though, that the writing is Proto Phoenician and not Old Hebrew surely supports the DNA findings that the Jews are just quasi-Phoenicians anyway?
We have something on it here:
Who were the Jews? No, really ...
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:38 am
by Rokcet Scientist
Ishtar wrote:Min, thanks for sending this over to us. His point, though, that the writing is Proto Phoenician and not Old Hebrew surely supports the DNA findings that the Jews are just quasi-Phoenicians anyway?
We have something on it here:
Who were the Jews? No, really ...
And weren't the Sea Peoples the progenitors of the (quasi-)Phoenicians? Because if they were, Jews and Philistines/Palestinians descend from the same root....
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:12 am
by Minimalist
No. Egyptian records of contact with Phoenician towns goes back to the Old Kingdom and pre-dates the Sea People by over a millenium.
What was always interesting about the Phoenicians was that the Sea Peoples scrupulously left them alone while attacking everyone else in the area. Almost as if the Phoenicians had made some sort of alliance or something.
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:46 am
by Minimalist
Ishtar wrote:Min, thanks for sending this over to us. His point, though, that the writing is Proto Phoenician and not Old Hebrew surely supports the DNA findings that the Jews are just quasi-Phoenicians anyway?
We have something on it here:
Who were the Jews? No, really ...
Yes they were all Semites, Ish. What still remains an open question is when did these particular residents actually become "Jewish" as we understand the word today?
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:14 am
by Rokcet Scientist
Minimalist wrote:No. Egyptian records of contact with Phoenician towns goes back to the Old Kingdom and pre-dates the Sea People by over a millenium.
Huh?
There are Egyptian records of well
before 2,500 BC of contacts with Phoenician towns?
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:44 am
by Minimalist
It's in Donald Redford's "Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times."
I'll see if I can find it for you.
Re: The counterattack begins on Khirbet Qeiyafa
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:01 pm
by Minimalist
Redford, Page #22.
During the historic period, at least as early as the 27th century BC but undoubtedly of much higher antiquity the Pharaohs enjoyed a formal trade relationship with Byblos on the Phoenician coast.
Beginning again on page #38 he begins a lengthy discussion of Old Kingdom trade contacts including Lebanese cedar in First Dynasty tombs.
In addition to the occasional written source they have found Egyptian artifacts in Byblos and Phoenician artifacts in Egypt. Redford is also careful to maintain that this was a sea-based trade because (Ta-Da!) they had boats!