DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Ishtar
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DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

Post by Ishtar »

Hello guys. Just thought I'd drop by and let you know about this story which is based on an article just published in Nature. We're being told that the newly-discovered DNA in Siberia is from a human-like being who lived there between 48,000 and 30,000 years ago. They're still saying, though, that:

"This shows that the individual from Denisova is the representative of a previously unknown human lineage that derives from a hitherto unrecognised migration out of Africa," said, guess who? Chris Stringer, of course! I guess they think that if they keep repeating that mantra, it will make it true ~ and according to quantum physicists, they'd be right! :lol:

The finger bone was unearthed in 2008 at Denisova Cave
Image
Scientists have identified a previously unknown type of ancient human through analysis of DNA from a finger bone unearthed in a Siberian cave.

The extinct "hominin" (humanlike creature) lived in Central Asia between 48,000 and 30,000 years ago.

An international team has sequenced genetic material from the fossil showing that it is distinct from that of Neanderthals and modern humans.

Details of the find, dubbed "X-woman", have been published in Nature journal.

Professor Chris Stringer, human origins researcher at London's Natural History Museum, called the find "a very exciting development".

"This new DNA work provides an entirely new way of looking at the still poorly-understood evolution of humans in central and eastern Asia."

The discovery raising the intriguing possibility that three forms of human - Homo sapiens, Neanderthals and the species represented by X-woman - could have met each other and interacted in southern Siberia.

Origin unknown

The tiny piece of finger bone was uncovered by archaeologists working at Denisova Cave in Siberia's Altai mountains in 2008. An international team of researchers extracted mitochondrial DNA from the bone and compared the genetic code with those from modern humans and Neanderthals.

Mitochondrial DNA comes from the cell's powerhouses and is passed down the maternal line only. The analysis carried out by Johannes Krause from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, and colleagues revealed the human from Denisova last shared a common ancestor with humans and Neanderthals about one million years ago.

This is known as the divergence date: essentially, when this human's ancestors split away from the line that eventually led to Neanderthals and ourselves.

The Neanderthal and modern human evolutionary lines diverged much later, around 500,000 years ago. This shows that the individual from Denisova is the representative of a previously unknown human lineage that derives from a hitherto unrecognised migration out of Africa.

"Whoever carried this mitochondrial genome out of Africa about a million years ago is some new creature that has not been on our radar screens so far," said co-author Professor Svante Paabo, also from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.

The divergence date of one million years is too young for the Denisova hominin to have been a descendent of Homo erectus, which moved out of Africa into Asia some two million years ago.

And it is too old to be a descendent of Homo heidelbergensis, another ancient human thought to have originated around 650,000 years ago.

Slice of time

The research contributes to a more complex emerging picture of humankind during the Late Pleistocene, the period when modern humans left Africa and started to colonise the rest of the world.

Professor Clive Finlayson, director of the Gibraltar Museum, has previously argued that "a time slice at a point in the late Pleistocene would reveal a range of human populations spread across parts of Africa, Eurasia and Oceania.

"Some would have been genetically linked to each other, behaving as sub-species, while the more extreme populations may well have behaved as good species with minimal or no interbreeding."

It was long known that modern humans may have overlapped with Neanderthals in Europe for more than 10,000 years. But in 2004, researchers discovered that a dwarf species of human, dubbed "The Hobbit", was living on the Indonesian island of Flores until 12,000 years ago - long after modern humans had colonised the area.

Neanderthals appear to have been living at Okladnikov Cave in the Altai mountains some 40,000 years ago. And a team led by Professor Anatoli Derevianko, from the Russian Academy of Sciences, has also found evidence of a modern human presence in the region at around the same time.

Professor Stringer commented: "Another intriguing question is whether there might have been overlap and interaction between not only Neanderthals and early moderns in Asia, but also, now, between either of those lineages and this newly-recognised one."

"The distinctiveness of the mitochondrial DNA patterns so far suggests that there was little or no interbreeding, but more extensive data will be needed from other parts of the genome, of from the fossils, for definitive conclusions to be reached."
Story from here
Rokcet Scientist

Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Yep. Another extinct hominin. Like Homo Floresiensis and the Hottentots:
DNA identifies new ancient human

Scientists have identified a previously unknown type of ancient human through analysis of DNA from a finger bone unearthed in a Siberian cave.
The extinct "hominin" (humanlike creature) lived in Central Asia between 48,000 and 30,000 years ago.
An international team has sequenced genetic material from the fossil showing that it is distinct from that of Neanderthals and modern humans.
Details of the find, dubbed "X-woman", have been published in Nature journal.

Professor Chris Stringer, human origins researcher at London's Natural History Museum, called the find "a very exciting development".
"This new DNA work provides an entirely new way of looking at the still poorly-understood evolution of humans in central and eastern Asia."
The discovery raising the intriguing possibility that three forms of human - Homo sapiens, Neanderthals and the species represented by X-woman - could have met each other and interacted in southern Siberia.

Origin unknown
The tiny piece of finger bone was uncovered by archaeologists working at Denisova Cave in Siberia's Altai mountains in 2008. An international team of researchers extracted mitochondrial DNA from the bone and compared the genetic code with those from modern humans and Neanderthals.
Mitochondrial DNA comes from the cell's powerhouses and is passed down the maternal line only. The analysis carried out by Johannes Krause from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, and colleagues revealed the human from Denisova last shared a common ancestor with modern humans and Neanderthals about one million years ago.
This is known as the divergence date: essentially, when this human's ancestors split away from the line that eventually led to Neanderthals and ourselves.

The Neanderthal and modern human evolutionary lines diverged much later, around 500,000 years ago. This shows that the individual from Denisova is the representative of a previously unknown human lineage that derives from a hitherto unrecognised migration out of Africa.
"Whoever carried this mitochondrial genome out of Africa about a million years ago is some new creature that has not been on our radar screens so far," said co-author Professor Svante Paabo, also from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.

The divergence date of one million years is too young for the Denisova hominin to have been a descendent of Homo erectus, which moved out of Africa into Asia some two million years ago.
And it is too old to be a descendent of Homo heidelbergensis, another ancient human thought to have originated around 650,000 years ago.

Slice of time
The research contributes to a more complex emerging picture of humankind during the Late Pleistocene, the period when modern humans left Africa and started to colonise the rest of the world.

Professor Clive Finlayson, director of the Gibraltar Museum, has previously argued that "a time slice at a point in the late Pleistocene would reveal a range of human populations spread across parts of Africa, Eurasia and Oceania.
"Some would have been genetically linked to each other, behaving as sub-species, while the more extreme populations may well have behaved as good species with minimal or no interbreeding."

It was long known that modern humans may have overlapped with Neanderthals in Europe, apparently for more than 10,000 years. But in 2004, researchers discovered that a dwarf species of human, dubbed "The Hobbit", was living on the Indonesian island of Flores until 12,000 years ago - long after modern humans had colonised the area.
Neanderthals appear to have been living at Okladnikov Cave in the Altai mountains some 40,000 years ago. And a team led by Professor Anatoli Derevianko, from the Russian Academy of Sciences, has also found evidence of a modern human presence in the region at around the same time.

Professor Stringer commented: "Another intriguing question is whether there might have been overlap and interaction between not only Neanderthals and early moderns in Asia, but also, now, between either of those lineages and this newly-recognised one."
"The distinctiveness of the mitochondrial DNA patterns so far suggests that there was little or no interbreeding, but more extensive data will be needed from other parts of the genome, of from the fossils, for definitive conclusions to be reached."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8583254.stm
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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I was just reading this one elsewhere, Ish. Good find. Anything to muddy the waters of their neat little theory is always welcome!


I still think they are a little loose with their use of the word "species."
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Interesting addendum from Sci Am, which makes the point that this is the first time that a hominim has been identified solely on the basis of DNA. It's quite interesting to see how they worked it out ...
Johannes Krause and Svante Pääbo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, and their colleagues obtained the DNA from a fossilized pinky finger bone found at Denisova Cave in the Altai Mountains of southern Siberia. The species was impossible to determine from the shape and size of the bone—it simply did not contain any diagnostic morphological traits. But there were good reasons to believe it came from a Neandertal or an early modern human. For one, the bone was recovered from a stratigraphic layer of the cave dated to between 50,000 and 30,000 years ago that contained artifacts belonging to the so-called Middle Paleolithic and Upper Paleolithic industries associated with these two groups. For another, Neandertals and modern humans were the only hominins known to have lived in this region during that time period. But the DNA the team extracted from the Denisova pinky bone turned out to be markedly different from DNA sequences previously obtained from early modern humans and Neandertals.

The researchers focused on a type of DNA known as mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Mitochondria are the power plants of the cell, and they have their own DNA that is separate from that housed in the cell nucleus and is passed down from mother to offspring. Because each cell has thousands of mitochondria, but only a single nucleus, mitochondrial DNA is much more abundant than nuclear DNA and is therefore more likely than the latter to be preserved in fossilized bone. To date, scientists have sequenced the mitochondrial genomes of both Neandertal and early modern human individuals, and the sequences for the two groups are quite distinctive.

Comparing the order of the genetic "letters"—or base-pairs, as they are termed—making up the Denisova mtDNA with the sequences of modern day humans and an early modern human, Krause and his collaborators found that the Denisova mtDNA differed from humans today in nearly twice as many letter positions as Neandertal mtDNAs do. Further analysis indicated that the most recent common mtDNA ancestor of the Denisova individual, Neandertals and modern humans dates to around a million years ago (making it twice as old as the most recent common mtDNA ancestor of Neandertals and moderns). This divergence date, the team says, indicates that the Denisova mtDNA is distinct from that of the H. erectus population that left Africa 1.9 million years ago, and also from that of the Neandertal ancestor H. heidelbergensis, which branched off from the lineage leading to modern humans around 466,000 years ago. As such, the researchers contend the Denisova mtDNA reveals a previously unrecognized migration out of Africa by a hitherto unknown group of hominins. (The team is holding off on giving the creature a formal name for now, but informally they refer to it as X-woman.)
From Scientfic American
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Minimalist wrote:
I still think they are a little loose with their use of the word "species."
John Hawkes agrees with you, Min, here: Hobbit version 2.0: the undiscovered hominin.
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

Post by Ishtar »

Further, even this story is hardly paradigm shattering for Out of Africa. There is a site, Ulalinka, in Siberia, discovered in 1961, that is more than 200,000 years old and some even date it to more than 600,000 years old (In other words, there's the usual controversy over the dating). OK, admittedly there are no hominim remains at Ulalinka, but there is a site there nonetheless ... and tools were found there that are so unusual that that they do not belong in the usual classification of the Lower Palaeolithic typology. Even the classic western European nomenclature schemes cannot be applied to them. In other words, why was this site and these tools not mentioned in the article?

Image

It seems that every new discovery is reported upon in complete isolation to any other known relating research. There is no excuse for this as these articles from Nature are heavily peer reviewed. I don't like to sound paranoid ... and I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories. but is the truth being deliberately kept from us? Or are the people entrusted with telling us who we are not even capable of joined up thought?
Ulalinka: the Oldest Palaeolithic Site in Siberia

Siberia is a land which is often overlooked in history and archaeology. This is such a shame as there are many wonderful sites and archaeological discoveries to be found. The oldest Palaeolithic site in Siberia is Ulalinka.

Ulalinka was discovered in 1961 and is situated on the right tributary of the Maima River, on the left side of the Ulalinka below the cemetery of Gorny Altaisk. The site is located on the edge of the Iogola Ridge, which is composed of flint limestone, quartzite and other rock material dating from the late Proterozoic Age.

The site has two cultural layers that were exposed to the ridge as well as well as in a pit in the hilltop dug to a depth of 5.8 meters. “This section’s strata differ in genesis and form three informal units. In one of the pits walls this section was as follows: (1) modern black soil, 0.70 m; (2) grey-brownish loam with worm tunnels and roots of vegetation, 0.3 m; (3) loessy light grey loam with columnar parting and lime nodules, 0.3 m; and (4) loessy light brown loam with lime nodules, 0.4 m”. Confirmed by finds of molluscs, these four layers make up a typical late Quaternary loam unit.

The first cultural layer is found on the lower part of this loam unit, which then proceeds with lumpy brown clay, 0.45 m, then brown clay with iron hydrates, followed by yellowish brown clay with crushed stone. These particular layers and make up the middle section and indicates, along with the general appearance of the loan unit, a much earlier Quaternary age.

The upper cultural layer has yielded a vast array of archaeological artefacts, particularly Palaeolithic implements. Some of these include a few flakes, fragments of a prismatic core, a point, and a small scraper of a semi-lunar blade made of obsidian. These tools are from an age younger then the Sartan glaciation, which is less than 25,000 years ago.

One of the interesting things about this site is the fact that the stoning inventory and the way the tools were manufactured are not only so primitive, but they are so peculiar that they do not belong in the usual classification of the Lower Palaeolithic typology. Even the classic western European nomenclature schemes cannot be applied here.

The archaeological data was enough to date the site, however geological, paleogeographical paleontological methods were used as well. These methods by did not produce a common date; some scholars believe the site be no more than 40,000 years old, others dated it to the Middle Pleistocene, whilst others believed to it today from the Early Pleistocene. “A further group of scholars assigned it to the Late Pliocene on the basis of paleogeographical environments and lithology of the cultural layer”. However, we know now that the site itself is definitely more than 690,000 years old, making Ulalinka the oldest Palaeolithic site in Siberia.

Bibliography:

Okladnikov, A. L. & Pospelova, G. A. (1982) Ulalinka, the Oldest Palaeolithic Site in Siberia, Current Anthropology, The University
From this article

This debate is continuing on my forum, and so if you wish to follow it, please go to Huge backroom brawl over Out of Africa
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Ishtar wrote:
Minimalist wrote:
I still think they are a little loose with their use of the word "species."
John Hawkes agrees with you, Min, here: Hobbit version 2.0: the undiscovered hominin.

the date of the most recent common mtDNA ancestor shared by the Denisova hominin, Neanderthals and modern humans is approximately one million years ago (mean = 1,040,900 years ago;

Yes! Right on track for HE (again) as the remote common ancestor. Thanks, Ish.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Rokcet Scientist

Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

Ishtar wrote:This debate is continuing on my forum, and so if you wish to follow it, please go to Huge backroom brawl over Out of Africa
In the old days I was a sucker for a good brawl.
Now I try to stay away from that kinda stuff...
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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You're kidding! :lol:

Roy.
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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You must be getting old, RS! :P There's nothing like a good brawl to set one up for the day! :D
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Digit wrote:This time with added pics!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... beria.html

Roy.
Thanks for the link Dig!

The reconstructions are interesting. Why do three of the reconstructions have lateral indentations on the skull?
Why are there no specimens showing a saggital crest? (an indication of a diet requiring strong jaw muscles)
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Why are there no specimens showing a saggital crest? (an indication of a diet requiring strong jaw muscles)
The logical deductions, not necessarily the correct ones of course, is that they were no longer eating tough fiberous or uncooked food. Which raises some interesting questions.

Roy.
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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

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Follow up:

http://www.24worldnews.com/x-woman-coex ... -ago/6193/
The bone, probably from a child, was found at Denisova Cave in the Altai Mountains of southern Siberia.

The genetic sequence was then compared with those for 54 present-day modern humans, a Late Pleistocene early modern human from Russia, six complete Neanderthal mtDNAs, one bonobo and one chimpanzee.

None of them matched with the new sequence, but they revealed that the individual was a human that carried twice as many genetic differences as Neanderthals do with our species.

Since Neanderthals and modern humans were also living less than around 62 miles away in Siberia at the time, Paabo said, “At least three different forms of humans may have coexisted 30,000 to 40,000 years ago,” making human history “a lot more complex and interesting” than previously thought for this period.

So...." that the individual was a human that carried twice as many genetic differences as Neanderthals do with our species."


um, what does this say about HNS?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: DNA identifies previously unknown human-like ancestor

Post by Digit »

Hello pop!

Roy.
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