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Uh-Oh

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:18 am
by Minimalist
I can hear the screaming already.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100614/sc ... 0614225117
WASHINGTON (AFP) – Two distinct groups from Asia settled in the New World and not one single migration as suggested by previous genetic studies, experts said Monday after comparing the skulls of early Americans.

Paleoanthropologists from Brazil, Chile and Germany compared the skulls of several dozen Paleoamericans, dating back to the early days of migration 11,000 years ago, with the more recent remains of more than 300 Amerindians.

"We found that the differences between Early and Late Native American groups match the predictions of a two-migration scenario far better than they do those of any other hypothesis," they said.

"In other words, these differences are so large that it is highly improbable that the earliest inhabitants of the New World were the direct ancestors of recent Native American populations."
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Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 am
by kbs2244
The 2 most important paragraphs:

"We found that the differences between Early and Late Native American groups match the predictions of a two-migration scenario far better than they do those of any other hypothesis," they said.

"In other words, these differences are so large that it is highly improbable that the earliest inhabitants of the New World were the direct ancestors of recent Native American populations."

Go to this site for the original report.
Check out the map that shows origins in Asia matched to locations in the Americas.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... A2.ambra02

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:52 pm
by Johnny
Steve Holen, PhD. gave a talk here in Denver concluding an AIA lecture series recently that covered a couple of his papers showing evidence for an asiatic migration to the new world between 20 and 30k ybp. The evidence presented mainly consisted of spirally fractured mammoth bones suggesting human intervention. So, add that to the tally.

http://www.dmns.org/science/curators/st ... mmoths.pdf
http://www.dmns.org/science/curators/st ... lacial.pdf <- Prelim

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:10 pm
by Rokcet Scientist
This one, however,
"We found that the differences between Early and Late Native American groups match the predictions of a two-migration scenario far better than they do those of any other hypothesis," they said.
also strongly suggests that this study was explicitly looking for that result. That kind of tunnel vision gets people innocently convicted of murder so I'm rather wary of this story.

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:43 pm
by hardaker
Neves is a superstar. He's been at it awhile. The North never messes with him, they just shun him, ignore him, and have private hissy fits. It is fantastic to see South America take the lead in such crucial studies.

But take a minute and recollect the isolationist template that has ruled the roost for over 50 years, which pretty much continues whenever preColumbian contact comes up. The previous Clovis First template was so pure, so easy, and we are still in the psychological sway of it. When Clovis was first, no one was second because the landbridge was covered. And there was no such thing as PreColumbian (pre-1492) oceanic contact because folks didn't know how. [Until about maybe 1000-1300 AD with Eskimos from the west and Vikings from the east but they don't count because neither had any effect on the cultural trajectories of all that came before in the New World, like multiple, far flung geographic births of various civilizations.] The rise of all civilizations were made in America by Native Americans. Logic tells us that the ultimate ancestor must have been the original Clovis population. That means everyone in the PreColumbian world until about a 1000 years ago, were sons and daughters of Clovis. Period. Total isolationism. Total cultural purity. This was the primary assumptions in American Anthropology. The New World as a great cultural test tube of mankind depended on that assumption. As a cultural evolutionist, you could not have a finer field of study. As long as there were no boats, and/or no cultural diffusion from the Old World, the test-tube model obtained. And that meant that all languages, courting behaviors, hunting tactics, marriage customs, funerary customs,, religious beliefs, every kind of belief, dream interpretation, knots and fiber preparation, every cultural type of behavior, belief and technology, everything you can think of under the cultural sun, all originated and radiated from that first New World population, the Clovis. They were the Adam and Eve culture: by definition, given the absence of ocean tech. Sigh. It was so easy back then...

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:34 pm
by Minimalist
The previous Clovis First template was so pure, so easy, and we are still in the psychological sway of it.

As H. L. Mencken noted, Chris:
Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:45 pm
by Johnny
Purchased the Kindle edition for my iPad. You're up next after I finish Sarah Nelson's archaeological history of Denver this weekend.

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:52 pm
by Minimalist
Well worth your time, Johnny.

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:11 pm
by Johnny
Minimalist wrote:Well worth your time, Johnny.
Sure looks like it. I devoured Adovasio's First Americans in a day. If the foreword and first ten pages of Mr. Hardaker's work are an indication, this will be much the same but with less "C. Vance Haynes drove me to drink".

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:43 am
by hardaker
Hi Johnny, Hope you enjoy it. Any questions, drop me a line.
Chris

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:01 am
by Johnny
hardaker wrote:Hi Johnny, Hope you enjoy it. Any questions, drop me a line.
Thank ya, sir. Most definitely will. Didn't get to start this weekend as I'd hoped. Decided to climb a mountain instead. :)

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:06 pm
by Tiompan
hardaker wrote:Hi Johnny, Hope you enjoy it. Any questions, drop me a line.
Chris
Chris , I've just been looking at "Native American Geometry " .Would you mind a couple of comments ?

George

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:16 am
by hardaker
Hi George,
This might not be the right place for that, but briefly, it is the application of Classical geometry principles to Native American architecture and symbology. "Classical" refers to pre-Euclidean geometry developed by the Classic Greeks. It is exactly the same as Sacred Geometry. It reveals the natural phenomenon of geometry that erupts from a circle. It is non-random, multi-cultural, holistic and eminently integrated with an endless series of phenomena because it is a property of Space itself, something that was around before Creation. Culture and language do not seem to be barriers to understanding and working with it -- something Algebra is accused of. What is incredible is that you can teach the basics to all children (9years+) in a connect-the-dot format and introduced as a skill to make geometric art. It is amazing educational institutions have not seized on it because everything you have to know by the end of the 8th/9th grade you could teach in the 6th grade. Of course that would mean teachers have to be re-taught and who wants to do that! Better stop.

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:25 am
by hardaker
Hi Minimalist -- just wanted to observe that news of two biologically-demonstrated paleo-populations in the New World should have been huge news. Often at Archaeologica when there are big discoveries you guys add additional articles as they occur, i.e. "more on ..." . Like the Hobbit controversy and maybe the recent announcement of Acheulean tech tied to navigation on Crete. Awesome stuff. Well, you would thing that this announcement would inspire the same kind of reactions all over the place. But listen: that resounding silence machine against this idea among the movers and shakers in the US are at it again. Did a news check and it went nowhere! You would have at least have expected papers to interview any of the many, many professional naysayers saying Neves et al are full of crap, blah blah, or, more research is needed, etc. But it seems that since they cannot argue against the conclusion, they just say nothing. It is deafening, given the importance of this multi-pop conclusion. It is absolutely huge news. Shhhhhhhh....

Re: Uh-Oh

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:27 pm
by Minimalist
I have noticed that technique before, Chris.

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