Radiocarbon dating 2.0

[Digit]

Russia has an educational system that's bent on educating people rather than subverting them.

You mean they've finally got round to admitting to the Pogroms, the millions that were killed by Stalin, the massacre of Polish officers at Katyn etc? I'm astounded.

Roy.

[uniface]

Funny thing about the pogroms, Dig. There was a pattern to them.

1). Anarchist Jews assassinate a Czar, a cabinet minister, &c. using the terror bombing technique they invented (and are currently whining is proof of Islamic sub-humanity, seeing as it's now being used against them rather than by them against others).

2). Ordinary Russians, understandably somewhat miffed by their leaders being murdered by them, lash out at the nearest Jews.

3). Their reaction is attributed to unilateral Russian Christian savagery.

So long as we're exchanging pleasentries, my impression is that, re. historical objectivity, contemporary Russia is miles ahead of Israel.

[Rokcet Scientist]

my impression is that, re. historical objectivity, contemporary Russia is miles ahead of Israel.

Poor Israel! Because that would mean they've still got 70 years of totalitarian 'communism', and 20 years of nepotistic oligarchy ahead of them...

[Digit]

understandably somewhat miffed by their leaders being murdered by them, lash out at the nearest Jews.

Understandable? Jews living miles away in the east. Bit like blaming all Muslims for 9/11 wouldn't you say?
But that was not what I asked, I asked if they were teaching these things in schools now, are they?

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I asked if they were teaching these things in schools now, are they?

Is it better when they are taught in school..?
Where it is taught is not important, imo. That it is taught is!

[Digit]

Granted RS, but within the point I was discussing with Uniface it was the eductaion system that was under discussion, though he dodged two other questions other than the pogroms.
Also if the Russians were so pissed off by the action he describes I remain surprised at the subsequent Revolution.
Also of course he ignores the fact that the founder of the Red Army was Trotsky, a Jew, who was killed by Ramon Mercator, a non Jew. Plus the murder of Nicholas 11 was on Lenin's orders, Lenin, rather embarassingly for Uni's views being an Orthodox 'Christian!'

Roy.

[uniface]

Look into Lenin a bit further.

[Digit]

For what? Let me guess, he was a closet Jew! He was baptised into the Russian Orthodox Church, though I don't doubt for one moment that there is a conspiracy theory that every mad man in history was Jewish.
And now that you're awake what about the questions I asked on the Russian education system?

Roy.

[uniface]

Understandable? Jews living miles away in the east. Bit like blaming all Muslims for 9/11 wouldn't you say?

People over here have been boycotting BP gas stations since the Gulf disaster. The two seem pretty analogous. And understandable.

Also if the Russians were so pissed off by the action he describes I remain surprised at the subsequent Revolution.

Oganisation, Digit. How else do you think that the string-pullers in Whitehall and Washington (and Threadneedle Street and Wall Street) could control immense populations of people who impotently despise them ? Organisation, financing and communication.

The first bailout looms. Public response is (as one Congressman put it) 50% No ! and 50% HELL NO ! It was passed. Can you honestly believe that the American people want our troops off in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else killing people and being killed ? Do you think we enjoy living in a virtual police state ? I can't believe that you do.

He was baptised into the Russian Orthodox Church

As were, if memory serves, Felix Mendelssohn, Benjamin Disraeli and any number of others who wanted their paths upward smoothed. Without this affecting anything in the least.
Let's cut this to the chase.

I remain surprised at the subsequent Revolution

An excerpt from a noteworthy book you haven't been allowed to read (in English) for years :
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/ar ... er-18.html

[Digit]

Written by conspiracy theorists for the converted.

'When men cease to believe in God they'll believe in anything.'

G. K. Chesterton.

As were, if memory serves, Felix Mendelssohn, Benjamin Disraeli and any number of others who wanted their paths upward smoothed

Absolutely correct, because people with your ideas wouldn't give them a fair crack of the whip otherwise. So we have the ridiculous situation whereby D'Israeli is unacceptable to you as a practising Jew but as soon as he has his head plastered with 'Holy' water he's okay for the job.
Do you realise how stupid that makes anti Semitism look?
When Mendels sohn had his first work published it was listed as, 'By Felix Mendels Sohn, a Jew ffrom Cologne' just so some nut wasn't tricked into actually enjoying 'Jew music.'
Just imagine enjoying a piece of music then horror! it was written by a Jew!

Roy.

[uniface]

You're over the top, Dig.

Really.

[uniface]

I know a little about the classical music business, as it happens. And experienced the ethnopolitics that dominate it at first hand. For years.

Do you realise how stupid that makes anti Semitism look?

And how fair a shake do even Sephardic Jews (Hebrew has an "N" word too. And uses it for them) get in Israel -- let alone Palestinians ?

Yawning chasms like that between preaching at others (especially, stridently) and practice in their own affairs bring people doing both -- and rationalising it -- into widespread disrepute. Nobody has to attack them -- they bring it on themselves. And blame everyone else for it.

I think their time would be better spent cleaning up their own acts than by trying to dismiss a monumental historical account by a writer like Solzhenitzyn as the ravings of "an anti-semite."

[Digit]

In the Uk Uni we have a number of political parties that their opponents claim are anti semitic, anti colour and pro fascist, and under the last government members of these parties are banned from education, the judiciary etc for fear that they will 'infect' others with their opinions.
You have been banned by Ish, as have I, for your opinions.
You may be surprised to know that i am bitterly opposed to such actions, I had a lecturer at college who was a communist, I listened to him, debated with him, had drinks with him. Banning people from the professions because they are 'Fascists' is what the fascists did!
Thus I listen to you and defend your right to your opinions, but when you start blaming people like me for the actions of the Israeli government and saying that I bring your dislike of me 'on my self' you're are no better IMO than the 9/11 bombers etc who kill your innocents 'cos they don't like your goverment.
ie,

Nobody has to attack them -- they bring it on themselves.

If you can't see the stupidity of that then your mind is totally closed to logic.
I would also point out Uni that Israel has a right to exist by international law, if the case of your country's take over were to come before an international tribunal, where would your country stand do you think?
I would also observe that those baptised Jews you listed were not baptised to obtain advantage, but simply to obtain a level playing field that was otherwise denied them by people with your opinions. If Jews dominate the world as you seem to think such subterfuges would not be necessary, thus your opinions once again fail to stand the test of logic.

Roy.

[uniface]

Like you, perhaps, I'd decided by age 20 that the only books much worth reading were those written by people anywhere from on the fringe to well over the edge. William Blake, Wilhelm Reich, Trevor James Constable, Lao Tse et al. (since expanded).

I don't blame YOU for their actions, Dig, and you cannot reasonably construe this from what I wrote. But, life being nothing if not complicated, whenever you identify yourself with, and undertake to champion or advance a cause (and Judaism IS one, with a detailed agenda that's been the game plan for a thousand years' time, at least), you DO open yourself to wonder as to the extent to which you are speaking purely as an individual who's come to his own conclusions, or more or less deliberately advancing it (subconsciously or otherwise). It is in this sense that, from the perspective on this end, the "You shall rule them with a rod of iron" and "They shall lick the dust from your feet" is a not UNreasonably suspected common denominator linking the behavior of the Israelis and the representations of the man in Wales writing on the archaeology board.

Logic : an old solicitor's maxim : "When you've right on your side, argue right. When you have the law supporting you, argue the law. When you've neither, pound on the table and raise your voice."

Both your points (Israel's "right to exist" and the actual ethnopolitical dominance in the classical music realm), IMHO, fall into the third category. Logic cuts both ways. And, in the end, congruence with life-as-it-is decides the issue. The Americans who, without prompting, are eschewing petrol purchases from British Petroleum stations are, in light of the Gulf disaster, not acting illogically. Or, if they are by your construal of logic, they are doing so illogically but rationally.

I'm out of time here.

Cheers & Regards

[Digit]

How I fall into that category I know not, I am simply pointing out historical facts.
Here's another one for you to dodge.
Palestine was occupied by people fleeing persecution in Europe.
The Americas were occupied by people fleeing persecution in Europe.
When the Jews found that they were unwelcome they took up arms.
When the Founding Fathers found that were unwelcome they took up arms.
Please explain the difference, if any.
If the native Americans decided to fight back with bombs, rockets and suicide bombers what would you do?

whenever you identify yourself with, and undertake to champion or advance a cause

The only cause I am championing is a level playing field, that you apply the same rules to Jews as to yourself.

Both your points (Israel's "right to exist" and the actual ethnopolitical dominance in the classical music realm), IMHO, fall into the third category

In other words you see Israel's fight to establish itself as being different to that of your country's violent past, why is that?

"You shall rule them with a rod of iron" and "They shall lick the dust from your feet"

If you wish to quote Biblical texts try this one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
Matthew.

I don't apply the one that you have quoted UNreasonably suspected common denominator linking the behavior of the Israelis and the representations of the man in Wales writing on the archaeology board. and you quite obviously don't follow that which I quoted.
Israel, right or wrong, has done no diffrent to your country and burying your head in the sand does not give you a good view of the moral high ground. Bring on that level playing field and judge all alike, as I do, Israel included!

Roy.