Colunbus

[kbs2244]

Can’t this guy get any respect?

From today’s news page.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic ... le_Ice_Age

I would think he would become a hero of the global warming crowd.
He cooled the worlds climate.

[Minimalist]

I always find it amusing when people complain that Europeans used "germ warfare" against native Americans. Europe in the 15th century was considering disease to be an affliction from god because of sin. In fact, they gleefully figured that god was clearing the land of heathens for them.

[Cognito]

I also find it hilarious when some 5,000 year old artifact emerges from a receding glacier and the green crowd cries, "See! It's global warming ... we're all doomed!"

Uh, Buckwheat. Don't you understand that we're just now starting to get back to Holocene Optimum temperatures? It was warmer back then before the item was first buried. Duh.

[Digit]

Not wishing to start a war between you and Min, (Says he from behind his hand!) but with care I think I can uspet you both! (Snicker, snicker.)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... oA&cad=rja

NATURE published a report this week on solar variance, the Green God, the Guardian, has ignored it, now I'm stupid enough to believe that such organs should publish both sides of a debate. Anything else is, IMO, censorship!
It's also bad science 'cos nailing one's colours to the mast is a very risky procedure, frequently followed by sinking without trace!

Loved this....

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... bg&cad=rja

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Oh, then you aren't going to like this, Dig.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15373071

The Earth's surface really is getting warmer, a new analysis by a US scientific group set up in the wake of the "Climategate" affair has concluded.

The Berkeley Earth Project has used new methods and some new data, but finds the same warming trend seen by groups such as the UK Met Office and Nasa.

On the plus side, looks like you Brits were right all along!

[Cognito]

The Earth's surface really is getting warmer, a new analysis by a US scientific group set up in the wake of the "Climategate" affair has concluded.

The Berkeley Earth Project has used new methods and some new data, but finds the same warming trend seen by groups such as the UK Met Office and Nasa.

Min, not a problem. Never said the globe wasn't warming up .... since we're still emerging from the "Little Ice Age" I would expect nothing less; however, the rate of warming is anemic bordering on lame versus what has occurred since the LGM. First of all, current warming:



While the trend is a slow incline, the lack of warming since the 1998 El Niño Event is an embarrassment to Global Warmistas. Now, for the Holocene overall (of which you and I are a tiny part, being specks on an elephant's butt):



If we really want to see some global warming, take a look at the emergence from the LGM. Recent evidence indicates that the temperature run up didn't take a thousand years or so ... it happened within decades. Now, that's global warming! What we see today is incredibly mild and very little beyond normally expected variation. And by the way, warming is good while cooling is bad (see: Europe Little Ice Age - Famine).

So far .... I'm not buying into the hysteria since carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant. I exhale CO2 which plants appreciate since the gas is plant food and, as such, the United States EPA labeling CO2 as a pollutant is moronic. Further, CO2 atmospheric enrichment enhances biomass to feed the 7 billion and growing human population. If we want to reduce the world's population, reduce carbon emissions.

Now ... if we're discussing real pollution I am alarmed at all of the crap going into our environment since, having begun my career in cancer research, I learned early on that greater than 95% of all cancers are environmentally induced.

And, by the way, Michael Mann is still a fraud. Hockey stick my ass.

[Digit]

Min, not a problem. Never said the globe wasn't warming up

Ditto Min, it's the Man Made bit I'm less certain of.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

It just isn't all that hard for me to accept that we are part of the problem. Moreover, WE are the only part of the problem that we can do anything about.

[kbs2244]

Two offical USN photos.
Subs surfacing at the North Pole in 1957 and 1962

[Digit]

There is a word in computing, GIGO, Garbage in = Garbage Out, and any computer programme, which warmists use as their main argument, that does not include solar variations is going to be incorrect, and it matters not one little bit as to whether CO2 is then under estimated or over estimated. It will still be incorrect.
As early as the 1980s many Brit universities began refusing to grant Phds based on computer models unless backed up by research. The CRU, that all the fuss was about here, was unable with its models to predict the reduction in temps that they were forced to admit to, and even now seem unable to accept that the Sun is the major component of Earth's climate and AFAIK still to not consider the Sun important.
If you used a model that failed to predict results would you not consider junking it?
The EURO has failed, the treatment suggested? A central fiscal union, ie when faced with failure, try a more of the same, the 'Hockey Stick' will haunt Mann.
The list of predictions that have failed is noted.
Over here the only thing not blamed on MMGW is ingrowing toenails!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... oA&cad=rja

Roy.

[Cognito]

Min, don't get me wrong. The pictures you present hit home; however, I believe it is environmental pollution that is the serious problem, not CO2 warming the frikken planet. In this instance, environmentalists are guilty of backing and beating to death the wrong horse - plant food.



As Roy pointed out, the sun has the major part to play in the earth's warming and cooling cycles, not anthropogenic CO2. To give humankind the credit for altering the earth's natural cycle to the point of runaway global warming is too self serving. We just aren't that important. The raw data doesn't support a rapid global warming, but a mild increase post-Little Ice Age, and sea levels aren't rising to the point where polar bears are being misplaced or drowning. A couple of millimeters per year, maybe, and not unexpected due to a slight warming trend.

In spite of all the crap being fed into the atmosphere, and all of the cars, etc., there has been no significant warming since the 1998 El Niño event and I suspect that the next decade will see more of the same, if not a slight cooling - all based on solar irradiance.

As a matter of fact, if it is statistically warmer on 22 October 2020 than it is today, I'll eat my hat (please provide salt). If it isn't, you eat yours .... GAME ON!!! Michelle can be the impartial judge.

[Digit]

It is worth noting that all previous warming cycles have been rapid, as were the subsequent cooling cycles, it is also worth noting that each occur with near clockwork regularity, in that the recent warming has been no different to the previous ones.
If the last GM was in full retreat within 50 yrs I doubt that anything other than the Sun could have been responsible.
One thing I have been unable to ascertain is whether CO2/Temp changes would produce a linear or a non-linear response, does anyone know?
There has been a TV series running over entitled, 'The Climate Wars' about diverse opinions. The latest was all about 'How Scientists Got it So Wrong in the '70s', with never a hint that modern day scientists are just as prone to mistakes as they were in the past.
The latest edition of the 'New scientist' lists 'What we Know' and 'What we Don't Know' about GW. At the top of the What we know is a definitive statement that man is warming the planet.
It's the same with all popular science, never a hint that their statements are possibly incorrect, never a 'as far as we know,' or, 'the sciences suggests,' or that 'other scentists disagree etc.
Science is not like that!
Just consider how often paleontologists have been wrong! Piltdown Man, HSN a moron, Clovis First, OOA.
Never say never, it's like to turn and bite.

Roy.

[circumspice]

There has been a TV series running over entitled, 'The Climate Wars' about diverse opinions. The latest was all about 'How Scientists Got it So Wrong in the '70s', with never a hint that modern day scientists are just as prone to mistakes as they were in the past.
Roy.

I am somewhat relieved that the dire predictions of the 1970s, Nuclear Winter, will probably not come to pass. It seems to me that Global Warming, man-made or otherwise, is imminently more survivable as far as our species is concerned. With a nuclear winter, once food reserves are exhausted, there looms the specter of global famine since we would not be able to produce sufficient quantities of food to support the human population at its present levels. I think global warming will prompt us to come to terms with unchecked population expansion, the poisoning of our environment, the destruction of habitats, the acceleration of extinctions, and a host of other ills that are, more or less, man-made in nature.

Besides... I HATE winter! Give me global warming ANYTIME!

[circumspice]

Two offical USN photos.
Subs surfacing at the North Pole in 1957 and 1962

Question: Were these photos taken in the same location and at the same time of year? (albeit 5 years apart)
Is that the point you are making?

[Cognito]

I think global warming will prompt us to come to terms with unchecked population expansion, the poisoning of our environment, the destruction of habitats, the acceleration of extinctions, and a host of other ills that are, more or less, man-made in nature.

As mentioned earlier I doubt humans have much to do with warming since the Little Ice Age and whatever miniscule portion is attributable to CO2 is more than offset by atmospheric carbon enrichment and its resulting benefits for food crops.

However ... unchecked population expansion, poisoning our environment, needlessly destroying habitats thereby causing extinctions, and a list of other ills (such as missing nuclear material) are real and very dangerous. I'd rather see the greens putting their AGW energies into those issues instead since, in spite of what Algore thinks, the science was never "settled" and global warming disaster scenarios are not evidenced by raw data, only by somone's tweaked computer model. If I was King of America, I would:

1. Put Michael Mann in jail for fraud,
2. Confiscate Algore's Nobel prize, and
3. Ban all "Inconvenient Truth" CDs except those produced in Farsi.

The above would be done right after I decreed a picture of mi amante be placed on the $100 bill - she's nice to stare at while Ben really does need some work.

And no, Roy, I'm not recompensating you for the tea, dammit! They were just a bunch of kids on college break dressed up as Indians. Chill out!