1421

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:06 pm

i read this book a couple years ago and found the premise very interesting. sunday discovery channel asia is showing another documentery on the life of the admiral who participated and led that voyage. (now remember this versionof discovery does not always show brand new programs and you may have seen it already).

it's title: emperor of the seas; the voyages of Zheng He

what do you think of this concept that the chinese beat columbus to america. beat cook to australia and beat magellan around the world?

what evidence have you heard that would shed light on this voyage?

i am tired of talking about Biblical related things for the moment and need something else to explore.

f9 · Post by f9 » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:27 pm

http://www.historycooperative.org/journ ... inlay.html
http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maph ... 06436.html
http://www.kenspy.com/Menzies/index.html
and more discusions here:http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maph ... hread.html

stan · Post by **stan** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:15 pm

I read 1421 also, and spent a little time exploring the website soon after. It was all pretty exciting.
Those old maps do seem to indicate a wide knowledge of the world, and there seems to be good evidence for the size and scope of the expedition.. I have no trouble with the idea that the Chinese discovered America before Columbus.
However, I think the author goes a little too far with assertions of Chinese influence in the Americas -- and with claiming that various artifacts and monuments are Chinese.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:17 pm

I saw a special on 1421. Menzies was questioned by experts and they tore him to shreds.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:48 pm

I saw a special on 1421. Menzies was questioned by experts and they tore him to shreds

i saw the same one on discovery channel here and it was a disappointing performance by menzies. i thought he would have been far more prepared than he was.

However, I think the author goes a little too far with assertions of Chinese influence in the Americas -- and with claiming that various artifacts and monuments are Chinese.

i can agree with this assessment. i thought it was interesting how he linked the bemini road to the chinese fleet as a dry dock. menzies makes good theories but he doesn't seem to have the enough evidence to back his claims.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:37 am

Yes. It was Discovery Channel.

There was one thing I thought they did not press him on seriously enough. The Portuguese explorations of the African coast were advancing by 1421. They had already colonized the Azores. Had a fleet that size coasted along Africa there is just no way that Portuguese sailors would not have spotted it and made a report. But there is no record of such a fleet.

For that matter, the fleet's purpose was to overawe Chinese trading partners in the Indian Ocean. If they had gone that far into the Atlantic why would they not have made their presence known in Europe? It would seem that their mission would have required making such contact. They certainly would have had nothing to fear from the European navies of the day.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:40 am

http://www.1421.tv/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=81

according to the above link, the chinese did reach europe and even egypt

they had gone that far into the Atlantic why would they not have made their presence known in Europe

click the following if you want to view the maps

http://www.1421.tv/maps.asp

the site has some interesting details and i get a newsletter from time to time. the home page is www.1421.tv

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:25 am

http://savageminds.org/2006/03/17/1421/

1421 is too leaky a vessel to deliver it” and “the reasoning of 1421 is inexorably circular, its evidence spurious, its research derisory, its borrowings unacknowledged, its citations slipshod, and its assertions preposterous.”

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:02 am

Extract from your link, arch.

Exciting news! It has recently come to our attention that the great fleets of the early fifteenth century visited Europe. Rumours abound of a Chinese presence in Ireland and Spain have come in via the website contact form since publication of 1421 and the launch of the website.

"Rumours" of a "Chinese presence" in Ireland? THis is why Menzies' ideas have not been taken seriously. Some jerk writing into a web site is not "evidence."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:39 pm

Rumours" of a "Chinese presence" in Ireland? THis is why Menzies' ideas have not been taken seriously. Some jerk writing into a web site is not "evidence."

don't shoot me, i just posted the link as you made the statement.

interesting llink beagle though i do not remember the part of the trianed otters being mentined in the book.

i can believe the chinese came to the west coast far easier than if they went to the east. makes more sense they would explore westward than eastward. they had an idea what was othe east but not to the west.

** i also wouldn't be surprised if this chinese fleet was said to have dropped off the polynesians on their way west. (yes, i am joking)

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:56 pm

don't shoot me, i just posted the link as you made the statement.

I didn't....you're getting very defensive.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:54 pm

i watched the discovery channel documentery on Zheng He last night and they made passing mention to the 1421 voyages. basically calling them fables.

though the covered a lot of the same marerial found in the book 1421,the shipyards, the easterly direction, ans so on.

it was put together a lot better than the menzies show but i don't think it cleared up any mysteries.

i hope others will post here as it would be nice to hear the thoughts of someone other than minimalist.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:26 pm

I didn't see the show so your wish will be granted.

For now.