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Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:12 am
by uniface
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:13 pm
by Tiompan
Zammit made the mistaken Cretan connection in the 1930's . We have known for a long time that the Maltese monuments /temples are much earlier and quite distinct from anything Cretan .
George
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:05 pm
by uniface
An underground complex in Crete was not "Cretan" ?
Stonehenge, built in Britain, was not "British" ?
Split somebody else's hair, OK ?
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:54 am
by Tiompan
A long way from splitting hairs .
Malta is not Crete or Cretan . Sicilly is only 55 miles from Malta, Crete is 500 . It was only in the ignorant old days that anybody suggested a connection , we have know better for a long time
Try telling the archaeologists who know the monuments , or the Maltese otherwise .
It was the same type of thinking that suggested that Stonehenge was Mycenaean .Wrong culture ,wrong period .
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:34 am
by Minimalist
Invest in a geography text, Uni.
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:48 am
by E.P. Grondine
Hi tiopan, min -
uniface is unaware of Malta's apparent ties with Southern Anatolia, in particular the female cult.
I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE.
A pronounced cultural discontinuity.
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:46 am
by Tiompan
E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi tiopan, min -
uniface is unaware of Malta's apparent ties with Southern Anatolia, in particular the female cult.
Hi EP I doubt anyone buys the Gimbutas female cult anymore .
if you are intersted in cult in relation to prehistoric Malta "Cult in Context " edited by Caroline Malone is worth a look .
"I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE."
Why should you think that ? It's the accepted chronology although the date is not as precise as 2360 BC and was probabaly earlier .
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:46 am
by Tiompan
Minimalist wrote:Invest in a geography text, Uni.
An archaeology of the region wouldn't go amiss either .
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:33 pm
by uniface
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:50 pm
by Tiompan
uniface wrote:A swing and a miss. Strike one. Get that bum outta there !!!!!
Is that local argot , for "ooops soory bout that , I got my geography and archaeology wrong " ?
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:22 pm
by E.P. Grondine
Tiompan wrote:E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi tiopan, min -
uniface is unaware of Malta's apparent ties with Southern Anatolia, in particular the female cult.
Hi EP I doubt anyone buys the Gimbutas female cult anymore .
if you are interested in cult in relation to prehistoric Malta "Cult in Context " edited by Caroline Malone is worth a look .
"I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE."
Why should you think that ? It's the accepted chronology although the date is not as precise as 2360 BC and was probably earlier .
Hi Tiompan -
I used to be pretty well able to discuss these in terms of primary materials, though since my stroke that is not so.
Unfortunately due to the weather I could not get up to the AIA in Chicago. It would have been fun.
While precise tree ring dating is not yet available,
the cultural discontinuity on Malta is abrupt and complete.
What exact cause for it do you propose?
Hint: there are four candidates, not three as earlier thought.
Along with your answer, please show you work.
[By the way, I am not an arrogant swine.]
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:55 am
by Tiompan
E.P. Grondine wrote:Tiompan wrote:E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi tiopan, min -
uniface is unaware of Malta's apparent ties with Southern Anatolia, in particular the female cult.
Hi EP I doubt anyone buys the Gimbutas female cult anymore .
if you are interested in cult in relation to prehistoric Malta "Cult in Context " edited by Caroline Malone is worth a look .
"I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE."
Why should you think that ? It's the accepted chronology although the date is not as precise as 2360 BC and was probably earlier .
Hi EP
Hi Tiompan -
I used to be pretty well able to discuss these in terms of primary materials, though since my stroke that is not so.
Unfortunately due to the weather I could not get up to the AIA in Chicago. It would have been fun.
While precise tree ring dating is not yet available,
the cultural discontinuity on Malta is abrupt and complete.
What exact cause for it do you propose?
Hint: there are four candidates, not three as earlier thought.
Along with your answer, please show you work.
[By the way, I am not an arrogant swine.]
Hi EP ,
I think you might have a job supporting the female cult whatever your health .
Your precise and later date of "cultural discontinuity "suggest that you are mistaken .
Please show your work to support this .
You didn't explain why you thought "I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE."
"Arrogant swine " , who said that about you here , recently . ?
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:26 pm
by E.P. Grondine
Hi Tionpan:
The data are well known:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/malta/
By the way, I do not think it is a "female cult".
It is just as or more than likely that there was a matrilineal society.
Gimbutas observations of rock sculptures of (hallucinogenic?) mushrooms are still valid.
Rock solid, in fact.
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:03 pm
by Tiompan
E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi Tionpan:
The data are well known:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/malta/
By the way, I do not think it is a "female cult".
It is just as or more than likely that there was a matrilineal society.
Gimbutas observations of rock sculptures of (hallucinogenic?) mushrooms are still valid.
Rock solid, in fact.
Hi EP ,
yes I know the data are well known that is why I asked why you thought "I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE."
However the data does not include a " complete disappearance " ( change of culture as was found in many other places in the Neolithic - Bronze Age transition would be more appropriate ) at such a precise date .
Gimbutas saw mushrooms, and others still do , not always, but often with little justification , the same applies to other motifs like vulvas .
Re: Strange Ancient Cretan Underground Civilisation
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:25 pm
by E.P. Grondine
Tiompan wrote:E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi Tionpan:
The data are well known:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/malta/
By the way, I do not think it is a "female cult".
It is just as or more than likely that there was a matrilineal society.
Gimbutas observations of rock sculptures of (hallucinogenic?) mushrooms are still valid.
Rock solid, in fact.
Hi EP ,
yes I know the data are well known that is why I asked why you thought "I think that none of you are aware of the complete disappearance of that culture on Malta around 2,360 BCE."
However the data does not include a " complete disappearance " ( change of culture as was found in many other places in the Neolithic - Bronze Age transition would be more appropriate ) at such a precise date .
Gimbutas saw mushrooms, and others still do , not always, but often with little justification , the same applies to other motifs like vulvas .
Its sometimes funny how many phalluses some people see in ancient artifacts.
In the case of Malta, this is no gradual change.
Its a cultural discontinuity, which brings me back to my original challenge to you.
What caused it, and show your work.
