EP ,
As you have been told before,you are not disagreeing with me , you simply don't know the meaning the the term .
e.g. From a couple of years ago Tiompan said "To repeat it is not my personal definition "Henge " , you are the one who is introducing a definition that would not be accepted by any archaeologist who knew what they were talking about ....if you , or others make up your own definitions then there is a problem in communicating the simplest of info ."
There are plenty of colonials who understand the definition of the term , you are just confused and incapable of accepting that you don't know what a henge is .
Confirming my previous post's contention . "Has it sunk in yet ? If past experience is anything to go on , I doubt it ."
Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Well, Hello, Tiompan,
I have to admit that these exchanges with you provide a welcome diversion from the day's stresses.
Working in the States would drive you nuts.
Cultural definitions vary by state.
You can imagine how difficult that makes things.
So I can communicate with people in general I will probably keep using the popular definition of "henge":
Either stones or wooden posts set up in a circle, with those elements set up in astronomical alignments.
If you want to refine that wording, go at it.
I have to admit that these exchanges with you provide a welcome diversion from the day's stresses.
Working in the States would drive you nuts.
Cultural definitions vary by state.
You can imagine how difficult that makes things.
So I can communicate with people in general I will probably keep using the popular definition of "henge":
Either stones or wooden posts set up in a circle, with those elements set up in astronomical alignments.
If you want to refine that wording, go at it.
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
[quote="E.P. Grondine
So I can communicate with people in general I will probably keep using the popular definition of "henge":[/quote]
Popular doesn't mean it's right .
[quote="E.P. GrondineEither stones or wooden posts set up in a circle, with those elements set up in astronomical alignments.
If you want to refine that wording, go at it.[/quote]
That's wrong . Look at the definition . Most henges don't have stones or wooden posts set up in any arrangement , although some do or did .
And when they do , the stones and posts are not the henge .
Remember the digital digging comment "A common mistake (and an understandable one given the origins of the term) is to confuse a henge monument with the stone or timber circles they sometimes contain (or once contained). Woodhenge, for example, has a henge (Class I), and used to have a timber structure inside the henge."
If you use your definition you are continuing with that same classic error that was pointed out years ago .
If stones or posts are "set up in a in a circle " then you can play about with "alignments" and find anything to suit your agenda .
Henges have an one or more "entrances " ,any possible indication of an alignment could only be connected with the entrance(s).
The vast majorityof the entrances show no indication towards any of the Thom paradigm orientations i.e. solstices , standstills etc.,
They face in all directions ,with no regular favoured direction of orientation ,
Thom had no hypothesis in relation to henges and astronomy is not part of the definition of the monument .
BTW .I have American friends who use the term correctly and there are plenty of Brits who make the same error as yourself .
So I can communicate with people in general I will probably keep using the popular definition of "henge":[/quote]
Popular doesn't mean it's right .
[quote="E.P. GrondineEither stones or wooden posts set up in a circle, with those elements set up in astronomical alignments.
If you want to refine that wording, go at it.[/quote]
That's wrong . Look at the definition . Most henges don't have stones or wooden posts set up in any arrangement , although some do or did .
And when they do , the stones and posts are not the henge .
Remember the digital digging comment "A common mistake (and an understandable one given the origins of the term) is to confuse a henge monument with the stone or timber circles they sometimes contain (or once contained). Woodhenge, for example, has a henge (Class I), and used to have a timber structure inside the henge."
If you use your definition you are continuing with that same classic error that was pointed out years ago .
If stones or posts are "set up in a in a circle " then you can play about with "alignments" and find anything to suit your agenda .
Henges have an one or more "entrances " ,any possible indication of an alignment could only be connected with the entrance(s).
The vast majorityof the entrances show no indication towards any of the Thom paradigm orientations i.e. solstices , standstills etc.,
They face in all directions ,with no regular favoured direction of orientation ,
Thom had no hypothesis in relation to henges and astronomy is not part of the definition of the monument .
BTW .I have American friends who use the term correctly and there are plenty of Brits who make the same error as yourself .
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
One of the best ,still stands up today (pun intentional ) .
Mind you this was nearly as (unconsciously ) hilarious .http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387412/
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Metallica?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD94L7rzOm8
Once again, tiompan, trying to divert the debate.
What is a "henge"?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ec1WaFrK8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auvl-gVWZEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA4nhoblyMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auvl-gVWZEo
Note carefully the complete lack of circular earthworks.
For that matter note the complete lack of circles.
So, what is a henge?
A henge appears to be a large stone or wooden post set in astronomical alignment.
Note that this definition allows other sites to gain status and tourist interest.
Now shall we move on to the definition of "aether"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD94L7rzOm8
Once again, tiompan, trying to divert the debate.
What is a "henge"?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ec1WaFrK8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auvl-gVWZEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA4nhoblyMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auvl-gVWZEo
Note carefully the complete lack of circular earthworks.
For that matter note the complete lack of circles.
So, what is a henge?
A henge appears to be a large stone or wooden post set in astronomical alignment.
Note that this definition allows other sites to gain status and tourist interest.
Now shall we move on to the definition of "aether"?
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
E.P
Yes , maybe in the Spinal Tap authored "Insites into Arkyologie " you might find that a Henge "appears to be a large stone or wooden post set in astronomical alignment."
But not in the real world .
Aether /Or ?
At least we know that henges exist ,despite the labyrinthine typologies that they have engendered ,
we have , excavations , recordings ,surveys , photographs, lists and a definition to keep things tidy .
Yes , maybe in the Spinal Tap authored "Insites into Arkyologie " you might find that a Henge "appears to be a large stone or wooden post set in astronomical alignment."
But not in the real world .
Aether /Or ?
At least we know that henges exist ,despite the labyrinthine typologies that they have engendered ,
we have , excavations , recordings ,surveys , photographs, lists and a definition to keep things tidy .
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Mathieu Ossendrijver
Tab. 5: Babylonian names of the zodiacal signs
transliteration ḪUN MUL2 MAŠ ALLA A ABSIN
Akkadian reading agru zappu māšu alluttu nēšu šer'u
literal translation Hired Man Stars/Brush Twins Crab Lion Furrow
modern equivalent Aries Taurus Gemini Cancer Leo Virgo
transliteration RIN2 GIR2.TAB PA MAŠ2 GU zib.ME
Akkadian reading zibānītu zuqaqīpu Pabilsag suḫurmāšu Gula zibbātu
literal translation Scales Scorpion Pabilsag Goat-fish Gula Tails
modern equivalent Libra Scorpius Sagittarius Capricorn Aquarius Pisces
31 Most of the abbreviations derive from the logographic names of constellations, e.g. ḪUN <
mul.lu2ḪUN.GA2 = agru, “Hired Man” (see Ossendrijver [2012]: xxv). Gula is not the goddess of
healing but an obscure male deity associated with Enki/Ea, the god of wisdom and subterranean
water. Some of the Akkadian names are not translations of the logogram. For instance, MUL2
derives from MUL.MUL, “Stars”, but zappu means “Brush” (both are also names of the Pleiades,
a group of stars near Taurus). It is not clear which of the two meanings, if any, is relevant
here. This might speak in favor of translating the zodiacal signs with modern equivalents, i.e.
MUL2 = “Taurus”.
A useful resource for constellation names:
http://members.westnet.com.au/gary-davi ... page14.htm
Tab. 5: Babylonian names of the zodiacal signs
transliteration ḪUN MUL2 MAŠ ALLA A ABSIN
Akkadian reading agru zappu māšu alluttu nēšu šer'u
literal translation Hired Man Stars/Brush Twins Crab Lion Furrow
modern equivalent Aries Taurus Gemini Cancer Leo Virgo
transliteration RIN2 GIR2.TAB PA MAŠ2 GU zib.ME
Akkadian reading zibānītu zuqaqīpu Pabilsag suḫurmāšu Gula zibbātu
literal translation Scales Scorpion Pabilsag Goat-fish Gula Tails
modern equivalent Libra Scorpius Sagittarius Capricorn Aquarius Pisces
31 Most of the abbreviations derive from the logographic names of constellations, e.g. ḪUN <
mul.lu2ḪUN.GA2 = agru, “Hired Man” (see Ossendrijver [2012]: xxv). Gula is not the goddess of
healing but an obscure male deity associated with Enki/Ea, the god of wisdom and subterranean
water. Some of the Akkadian names are not translations of the logogram. For instance, MUL2
derives from MUL.MUL, “Stars”, but zappu means “Brush” (both are also names of the Pleiades,
a group of stars near Taurus). It is not clear which of the two meanings, if any, is relevant
here. This might speak in favor of translating the zodiacal signs with modern equivalents, i.e.
MUL2 = “Taurus”.
A useful resource for constellation names:
http://members.westnet.com.au/gary-davi ... page14.htm
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Why, hello, ti0ompan -
Let's see -
a definition used by a few old cranks,
or the other one used by hundreds of thousands of people?
It's no wonder to me why Collins and Hancock eat your lunch.
Let's see -
a definition used by a few old cranks,
or the other one used by hundreds of thousands of people?
It's no wonder to me why Collins and Hancock eat your lunch.
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
E.P. ,
As you have been told many times there is a correct definition for the term ,it is understood by great numbers of people of all age groups and nationalities .
Others , like yourself get it wrong . Most however appreciate their error , if and when it is pointed out to them .
That you continue to ignore the facts is wilful ignorance and your problem .Why do we have to put up with endless time wasting posts when you can't take in simple info ?
The same confusion also applied to your very recent problems with "Believe" and "Impact " .
If you make up your own definitions then you have a hard time communicating .
Learn the lingo and you won't be confusing diesel with milk .
As you have been told many times there is a correct definition for the term ,it is understood by great numbers of people of all age groups and nationalities .
Others , like yourself get it wrong . Most however appreciate their error , if and when it is pointed out to them .
That you continue to ignore the facts is wilful ignorance and your problem .Why do we have to put up with endless time wasting posts when you can't take in simple info ?
The same confusion also applied to your very recent problems with "Believe" and "Impact " .
If you make up your own definitions then you have a hard time communicating .
Learn the lingo and you won't be confusing diesel with milk .
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Not for nothing, but your definition of a henge is incorrect. Rather, the definition is exactly as Tiompan rendered it. We should at least agree on something that basic. Maybe the term has been corrupted over the years and loosely applied to stone or wooden post circles, but that does not make it correct.E.P. Grondine wrote:Metallica?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD94L7rzOm8
Once again, tiompan, trying to divert the debate.
What is a "henge"?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ec1WaFrK8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auvl-gVWZEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA4nhoblyMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auvl-gVWZEo
Note carefully the complete lack of circular earthworks.
For that matter note the complete lack of circles.
So, what is a henge?
A henge appears to be a large stone or wooden post set in astronomical alignment.
Note that this definition allows other sites to gain status and tourist interest.
Now shall we move on to the definition of "aether"?
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Be prepared for yet more evasive protestations .
What do we do , ignore them ?
Somehow that doesn't seem right , but it takes up space and time and turns people off .
What do we do , ignore them ?
Somehow that doesn't seem right , but it takes up space and time and turns people off .
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Hi shawomet -shawomet wrote: Not for nothing, but your definition of a henge is incorrect. Rather, the definition is exactly as Tiompan rendered it. We should at least agree on something that basic. Maybe the term has been corrupted over the years and loosely applied to stone or wooden post circles, but that does not make it correct.
If you want to be understood by the masses, try changing your professional definition to the one used by them.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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E.P. Grondine
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Good morning, tiompan -Tiompan wrote:Be prepared for yet more evasive protestations .
What do we do , ignore them ?
Somehow that doesn't seem right , but it takes up space and time and turns people off .
Note carefully that no one wrote to Spinal Tap
and pointed out to them that their definition of "henge" was wrong.
If you want to annotate all of those videos, please go ahead and do it.
Millions will enjoy the laugh.
I myself will probably stick with the definition of "henge" in common use here in the States
If I ever get back to whatever is left of the UK,
and speaking with professionals there about the circular earthworks in the UK,
then I will use the "proper" definition.
By the way,
the circular earthworks here in Ohio are not "henges".
Generally, they are known as "rings",
and their function is pretty well known.
Re: Skull Cult at Gobekli Tepe?
Ah well ,as expected . More evasive protestations .
Spinal Tap were playing for laughs ,really ,the film was not a documentary .
Although you may wish to align yourself with them ,there is a crucial difference , your posts are not funny .
You use what ever definition you like ,if you happen to be discussing henges with anyone with any knowledge of the subject anywhere ,including in the US ,you will either cause confusion or be corrected , if you stick to your wilfully ignorant definition .
BTW there are many types of circular earthworks , henges are only one specific type .
Spinal Tap were playing for laughs ,really ,the film was not a documentary .
Although you may wish to align yourself with them ,there is a crucial difference , your posts are not funny .
You use what ever definition you like ,if you happen to be discussing henges with anyone with any knowledge of the subject anywhere ,including in the US ,you will either cause confusion or be corrected , if you stick to your wilfully ignorant definition .
BTW there are many types of circular earthworks , henges are only one specific type .