Luwian notes
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
Luwian notes
From:
http://historum.com/ancient-history/775 ... greek.html
My short answer is No: Myceneans were Greek; Lycians were Luwian.
Note in the following the confusion of the term for "King of the Lycians" with a personal name:
Originally Posted by Psellos View Post
§1 I am Warika, son of [ … ], descendant of Mukasa, (Ah)hiyawan king, [servant of] the Storm-God, [man of the Storm-God].
§2 , Warika, extended [(the territory of) the city of (Ah)hiyawa],
§3 [and made prosper] the (Ah)hiyawan plain through the help of the Storm-God and my paternal gods.
§4 I added horse to horse;
§5 I added army to army.
§6 indeed, the Assyrian king and all the Assyrian dynasty became (like) a father and mother to me,
§7 and (Ah)hiyawa and Assyria became a single house.
§8 indeed, I smashed [powerful] fortresses,
§9 [and I built] fortresses—eight to the east and seven <to> the west.
§10 Indeed, these places were … for the palace of the River (Land).
§11 And I, by myself, [ … ] in the land … towns [ … ]
§12 [ … all] extremely good things.
p.265 Commentary
Warika (Awariku), the subject of this inscription, is well known from Assyrian texts of the second half of the eighth century as Urikki, king of Que. in Luwian texts, he is also attested in the famous Karatepe Luwian-Phoenician bilingual inscription, authored by one of his subordinate rulers, a man called Azatiwata (see Çambel 1999, hawkins 2000: 45–68). in the Luwian version of the Kara- tepe inscription, Warika’s kingdom is called Adanawa (its inhabitants are called the Danunians in the Phoenician version). But in the Luwian version of the Çineköy inscription, Warika calls his kingdom hiyawa. The kingdom was located in southeastern Anatolia, in the region called Cilicia Tracheia/Aspera (“Rough Cilicia”) in Classical sources, and extended over much of the territory covered by the Late Bronze Age country Kizzuwatna. We do not know why Warika’s kingdom was called Adanawa in one Luwian text and hiyawa in another. But we have noted that hiyawa is simply an aphaeresized form of Ahhiyawa, and it is possible that the name reflects a migration of populations of Ahhiyawan/ Mycenaean origin from western Anatolia or the Aegean world to Cilicia at the beginning of the iron Age. if the commonly assumed link between the hittite name Ahhiyawa and the Greek Achaia is valid, then the migration theory would appear to tie in with the claim by the Greek historian herodotus (7.91) that the Cilicians were originally known as Hypachaians (“sub-Achaians”).
I am surprised to learn from today's news that only 20 people globally are familiar with Luwili.
That being the case I need to add my own commentary here.
In some early PIE languages the King is indicated by an O-U medial vowel preceding the tribal name.
Firm vowel values have been tough to establish.
Following Brown and from what I have read in general,
those vowels were scarcely distinguishable by Indo-European speakers.
The consonant values were very differnt as well.
Thus Warika is not a personal name but rather a title: King of the Lycians.
Editing the commentary we have
Wa/Lika (Awa/Liku), the King of the Lycians and the subject of this inscription,
is well known from Assyrian texts of the second half of the eighth century as U/Rikki, (the King of the Lycians) the king of Que.
In Luwian texts, the King of the Lycians is also attested in the famous Karatepe Luwian-Phoenician bilingual inscription,
authored by one of his subordinate rulers, a man called Azatiwata (see Çambel 1999, Hawkins 2000: 45–68).
In the Luwian version of the Karatepe inscription, Wa/rika’s (The King of the Lycians) kingdom is called Adanawa
(its inhabitants are called the Danunians in the Phoenician version).
But in the Luwian version of the Çineköy inscription, Warika ( The King of the Lycians) calls his kingdom hiyawa.
In Classical sources this kingdom was located in southeastern Anatolia, in the region called Cilicia Tracheia/Aspera (“Rough Cilicia”),
and extended over much of the territory covered earlier by the Late Bronze Age country Kizzuwatna.
We do not know why Warika’s ( the King of the Lycians) kingdom was called Adanawa in one Luwian text and hiyawa in another,
but we have noted that hiyawa is simply an aphaeresized form of Ahhiyawa,
and it is possible that the name reflects a migration of populations of Ahhiyawan/ Mycenaean origin from western Anatolia or the Aegean world to Cilicia at the beginning of the iron Age.
If the commonly assumed link between the Hittite name Ahhiyawa and the Greek Achaia is valid,
then the migration theory would appear to tie in with the claim by the Greek historian Herodotus (7.91)
that the Cilicians were originally known as Hypachaians (“sub-Achaians”).
end commentary begin EP -
I want to add to this that it is likely that bardic poems of the Epic Oral cycle were sung at the Sarpedonian Games
which likely led to Homer's, Hesiod's, and other bards'/poets' versions.
Sarpedon's capital is thus likely to be a very key site for understanding the Bronze Age Aegean.
If you are amazed at the 20 Luwian scholars in total globally,
You ought to see the backlog of cuneiform texts awaiting reading.
Clearly computer aids are needed to leverage the very limited human talent now available.
The old paper systems can not keep up.
http://historum.com/ancient-history/775 ... greek.html
My short answer is No: Myceneans were Greek; Lycians were Luwian.
Note in the following the confusion of the term for "King of the Lycians" with a personal name:
Originally Posted by Psellos View Post
§1 I am Warika, son of [ … ], descendant of Mukasa, (Ah)hiyawan king, [servant of] the Storm-God, [man of the Storm-God].
§2 , Warika, extended [(the territory of) the city of (Ah)hiyawa],
§3 [and made prosper] the (Ah)hiyawan plain through the help of the Storm-God and my paternal gods.
§4 I added horse to horse;
§5 I added army to army.
§6 indeed, the Assyrian king and all the Assyrian dynasty became (like) a father and mother to me,
§7 and (Ah)hiyawa and Assyria became a single house.
§8 indeed, I smashed [powerful] fortresses,
§9 [and I built] fortresses—eight to the east and seven <to> the west.
§10 Indeed, these places were … for the palace of the River (Land).
§11 And I, by myself, [ … ] in the land … towns [ … ]
§12 [ … all] extremely good things.
p.265 Commentary
Warika (Awariku), the subject of this inscription, is well known from Assyrian texts of the second half of the eighth century as Urikki, king of Que. in Luwian texts, he is also attested in the famous Karatepe Luwian-Phoenician bilingual inscription, authored by one of his subordinate rulers, a man called Azatiwata (see Çambel 1999, hawkins 2000: 45–68). in the Luwian version of the Kara- tepe inscription, Warika’s kingdom is called Adanawa (its inhabitants are called the Danunians in the Phoenician version). But in the Luwian version of the Çineköy inscription, Warika calls his kingdom hiyawa. The kingdom was located in southeastern Anatolia, in the region called Cilicia Tracheia/Aspera (“Rough Cilicia”) in Classical sources, and extended over much of the territory covered by the Late Bronze Age country Kizzuwatna. We do not know why Warika’s kingdom was called Adanawa in one Luwian text and hiyawa in another. But we have noted that hiyawa is simply an aphaeresized form of Ahhiyawa, and it is possible that the name reflects a migration of populations of Ahhiyawan/ Mycenaean origin from western Anatolia or the Aegean world to Cilicia at the beginning of the iron Age. if the commonly assumed link between the hittite name Ahhiyawa and the Greek Achaia is valid, then the migration theory would appear to tie in with the claim by the Greek historian herodotus (7.91) that the Cilicians were originally known as Hypachaians (“sub-Achaians”).
I am surprised to learn from today's news that only 20 people globally are familiar with Luwili.
That being the case I need to add my own commentary here.
In some early PIE languages the King is indicated by an O-U medial vowel preceding the tribal name.
Firm vowel values have been tough to establish.
Following Brown and from what I have read in general,
those vowels were scarcely distinguishable by Indo-European speakers.
The consonant values were very differnt as well.
Thus Warika is not a personal name but rather a title: King of the Lycians.
Editing the commentary we have
Wa/Lika (Awa/Liku), the King of the Lycians and the subject of this inscription,
is well known from Assyrian texts of the second half of the eighth century as U/Rikki, (the King of the Lycians) the king of Que.
In Luwian texts, the King of the Lycians is also attested in the famous Karatepe Luwian-Phoenician bilingual inscription,
authored by one of his subordinate rulers, a man called Azatiwata (see Çambel 1999, Hawkins 2000: 45–68).
In the Luwian version of the Karatepe inscription, Wa/rika’s (The King of the Lycians) kingdom is called Adanawa
(its inhabitants are called the Danunians in the Phoenician version).
But in the Luwian version of the Çineköy inscription, Warika ( The King of the Lycians) calls his kingdom hiyawa.
In Classical sources this kingdom was located in southeastern Anatolia, in the region called Cilicia Tracheia/Aspera (“Rough Cilicia”),
and extended over much of the territory covered earlier by the Late Bronze Age country Kizzuwatna.
We do not know why Warika’s ( the King of the Lycians) kingdom was called Adanawa in one Luwian text and hiyawa in another,
but we have noted that hiyawa is simply an aphaeresized form of Ahhiyawa,
and it is possible that the name reflects a migration of populations of Ahhiyawan/ Mycenaean origin from western Anatolia or the Aegean world to Cilicia at the beginning of the iron Age.
If the commonly assumed link between the Hittite name Ahhiyawa and the Greek Achaia is valid,
then the migration theory would appear to tie in with the claim by the Greek historian Herodotus (7.91)
that the Cilicians were originally known as Hypachaians (“sub-Achaians”).
end commentary begin EP -
I want to add to this that it is likely that bardic poems of the Epic Oral cycle were sung at the Sarpedonian Games
which likely led to Homer's, Hesiod's, and other bards'/poets' versions.
Sarpedon's capital is thus likely to be a very key site for understanding the Bronze Age Aegean.
If you are amazed at the 20 Luwian scholars in total globally,
You ought to see the backlog of cuneiform texts awaiting reading.
Clearly computer aids are needed to leverage the very limited human talent now available.
The old paper systems can not keep up.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Luwian notes
This is a representation of a throne. You can tell by the two lions at its base.
(Lion - phonetic value "urmah," or "ur" (initial).)
And this may be a representation of a throne room or royal tomb, based on the lions at its entrance:
But note:
where the lions are found with female priests (or perhaps royals).
Not the paired lions again here:
Without finding an entire complex, we can not be sure if this one presents a religious, tomb, or royal structure.
This last one is un-provenienced.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:47 am, edited 8 times in total.
Re: Luwian notes
The spiral shown here is what caught my eye:
As can be seen from the seat marks on Crete, the spiral has royal connotations.
This may apply to units of measure or quality or dispersal,
but those are vast questions.
There is a better image of this rim in a paper by Hitchcock or Maier, but I can not find it.
I hope they can find the rest of the vessel.
I also noticed this image:
and altogether, the archaeology of Canaan is so politically charged that I'd rather work on Crete or in Lycia.
As can be seen from the seat marks on Crete, the spiral has royal connotations.
This may apply to units of measure or quality or dispersal,
but those are vast questions.
There is a better image of this rim in a paper by Hitchcock or Maier, but I can not find it.
I hope they can find the rest of the vessel.
I also noticed this image:
and altogether, the archaeology of Canaan is so politically charged that I'd rather work on Crete or in Lycia.
Re: Luwian notes
[quote="E.P. Grondine"]The spiral shown here is what caught my eye:
As can be seen from the seat marks on Crete, the spiral has royal connotations.
This may apply to units of measure or quality or dispersal,
but those are vast questions.
/quote]
In decoration ,as with arcs , serpentiforms, lozenges , circles and other phosphene forms the spiral motif is ubiquitous spatially and temporally .
As with the other forms , when we can retrieve any "meaning" attributed to the symbol from ethnography
we find it can mean a multitude of things to different artists or cultures .They can also mean different things to the same artist or culture and they can also be simple decoration .
As can be seen from the seat marks on Crete, the spiral has royal connotations.
This may apply to units of measure or quality or dispersal,
but those are vast questions.
/quote]
In decoration ,as with arcs , serpentiforms, lozenges , circles and other phosphene forms the spiral motif is ubiquitous spatially and temporally .
As with the other forms , when we can retrieve any "meaning" attributed to the symbol from ethnography
we find it can mean a multitude of things to different artists or cultures .They can also mean different things to the same artist or culture and they can also be simple decoration .
Last edited by Tiompan on Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Luwian notes
Sorry seems like a load of whiffle piffle. A spiral design might mean any numb er of things or nothing
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Re: Luwian notes
I frequently draw them while some asshole in tech support has me on hold.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
Re: Luwian notes
Like most of the phosphene forms, and many of the motifs found in abstract rock art , they are much the same content as found in adult doodles and also those of young children before developing a culture specific style .Minimalist wrote:I frequently draw them while some asshole in tech support has me on hold.
Re: Luwian notes
Does it matter if they go clockwise or counter-clockwise?
Has it ever been studied?
What about yours?
Are you right or left handed?
Does it matter?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Has it ever been studied?
What about yours?
Are you right or left handed?
Does it matter?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Re: Luwian notes
There was one study from the 90's in British and Irish spirals in Rock art .kbs2244 wrote:Does it matter if they go clockwise or counter-clockwise?
Has it ever been studied?
The findings were RH = 52% LH= 48 % .
Re: Luwian notes
Okay, guys, here's a few spirals:
THE PHAESTOS DISK
Using Laroche's values for "Hittite" Hieroglyphics:
SIDE 1 -
I.
[?]
[1. I] I
[181. Turpi] give
[?]
[?]
[327 seal] seal (swear)
.
II.
the boundaries?
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed ( are sworn for)
[326. writing] (by this) writing
III.
[1. I] I
[356. lords] (the) lords
[BATON?] I order?
[2. I myself]
IV.
[?]
[?]
the boundaries?
V.
porpoise - sailing time?
[225. city] (this) city
[58. with] with
[181. turpi] gifts
VI.
[480. you will] you will
[BATON?] I command
[245. building] (this) building
[370. sanctify] sanctify
VII.
[CLUB?] by the killing
[3. pronoun] (of a) man
[153. imperative] you will
porpoise - at sailing time?
VIII.
[286. associated with gods] to a god or to the gods
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[CLUB] the killing
[3. pronoun] a man
[245. building] for this building
IX.
[?]
[356. the lords] the lords
[193 month] (in the month) month
name of month= sailing ship?
X.
[327. seal] are sealed (sworn)
[225. city] (for this) city
[?]
[326. write] by this writing
XI.
[1. I] I
[108. abundance] (an) abundance
[160. wine] (of) wine
[?]
XII.
for the boundaries?
name of month,sailing ship
[189. spirit] by (the) spirit
[3. pronoun] of a man
XIII.
[LION - urmah] the king
[225. city]
[225. city] of this great city
[58. with] with
[326. write] this writing
XIV.
[280. you will] you will
YOKE - rule
[245 building] (this) building
XV.
[LION - urmah] the king
temporal - porpoise - sailing season?
[3. pronoun] him
XVI.
[4. goddess] goddess
[326. writing] by this writing
[13. priests] (you) priests
[153. imperative] you will
temporal - porpoise - sailing season?
XVII.
[1. I] I
[?]
the boundaries?
[3. pronoun] for them? him?
XVIII.
[LION urmah] the king
[160. wine] wine
[327. seal] sealed - (is sworn)
[41. give] (to) give
IXX.
[LION urmah] the king
[41 give] (will) give
CLUB a human sacrifice? war powers?
XX.
[LION urmah] the king
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXI.
[?]
[LION urmah] the king
[160. wine] (libations of) wine
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
[41. give] to give
XXII.
the boundaries?
[?]
[Baton] I command
ship - name of month?
XXIII.
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[245. building] building
[326. writing] (by this) writing
XXIV.
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[299. throne] (this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXV.
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[BATON] I command
[245. building] (the) building
[225. city] (of this) city
XXVI.
[?]
[LION urmah] the king
[160. wine] wine
[327. seal] sealed ( is sworn)
[41. give] (to) give
XXVII.
[?]
[110. ram] (A) ram
[153. imperative] you will
[245. building] (for this) building
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXVIII.
[1. I] I
[4. goddess] (for the) goddess
[36. write] (by this) writing
BATON - order
[327. seal] sealed (it sworn)
XXIX.
[LION - urmah] the king
[?]
BATON - I command
XXX.
[299. throne] (this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
SIDE 2
XXXI.
[?]
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
CLUB - the death
[3. pronoun] of a man
[245. building] (for this) building
XXXII.
[255. city] (for this) city
[?]
[181. turpi] give
XXXIII.
[lion urmah] the king
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327 seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXXIV.
[LION urmah]
[LION urmah] the great king
[?]
XXXV.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
a prisoner
[?]
porpoise - sailing time?
XXXVI.
the boundaries?
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[181. turpi] give
XXXVII.
the limits
[103. Deer God] (to the) Deer God
[41. give] give
XXXVIII.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
[4. goddess] (to the) goddess
[245. building] building
[193. month] month
IXL.
hallucinogenic mushrooms? (mushroom under wing)
[108. abundance] abundantly
[326. writing] (by this) writing
XL.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
[87. eleves - the nobles] nobles
[65. place] place (establish)
[326. writing] (by this) writing
XLI.
[3. pronoun] for them
[87. nobles] the nobles
[?]
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
XLII.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
[133. priests] priests
BATON command
[189. spirot] spirit
XLIII.
[153. imperative] You will
[?]
XLIV.
[1 I] I
the boundaries
ship- temporal?
FEATHER judge?
BATON command
[245. building] building
XLV.
hoof?
[3. pronoun]
XLVI.
[[1. I] I
[181. tur] give
hallucinogenic mushrooms? (mushroom under wing)
[108. abundance] abundance
LVII.
[1. I] I
[181 turpi] give
the boundaries
LVIII.
the boundaries
[326. write] (by this) writing
[356. the lords] the lords
[239., 464. gate] (of the) gate
LX.
CLUB - kill
[3. pronoun] a man
LXI.
FEATHER - judge
[10. man] a man's
[189. spirit] spirit
Not carefully the headdress of glyph 1, which is clearly Philistine.
It is likely that carved ivory stamps were used to inscribe the Phaestos Disk,
but whether they were of local manufacture or not is unknown.
Pallu-ili was among the languages spoken in the Hittite Empire, but whether these were identical with the Greek Pelasgasians is not known.
[In this context the Ancient Near Eastern practice of cutting off the hands of prisoners of war
may be relevant.]
THE MAVRO SPELIO RING
As can be seen from the seat marks on Crete, the spiral has royal associations.
As I mentioned elsewhere here, Dr. Brown's Linear A phonetic values await computer analysis of their phonetic loading.
(it is currently not known if the aspirates attach to the vowels or consonants.)
An attempted reading of this ring by Best. likely to be incorrect because he did not use Brown's values:
http://www.talanta.nl/wp-content/upload ... -17-26.pdf
SEAT MARK AT PHAESTOS
Seat Mark at Phaestos (click on link to view):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lgsdle9avq30 ... K.jpg?dl=0
note the distortions caused by overloading of Fletcher's computer.
STRUCTURE AT KNOSSOS
The seat mark at Knossos was effaced, or improperly reconstructed.
But there is this nice structure to the north of the palace (click on link to view):
https://db.tt/qQYfpuN1et
THE MAGLIANO INSCRIPTION
Using Pallottino's values (with extreme agglutinization):
Ca [demonstrative pronoun] this
uthas - is given
tuthiu - for the state
avils - for years
80 - 80
ez - (pronoun)
Ximthm - Xia pronoun - for them
casthIlth:
ca - pronoun - I
sat - judge
al pronoun -them
thi - to give
lacthi- as king here
hevn:
hec - to send
vn - wine
avil- year(ly)
nesl - (to the) dead person('s)
man - spirit
murinaSie:
mur - living+?
falzathi - in the sky there
aiseras - with the gods
in
eca - that
mene - place
mlaPcemari:
mla - a gift
Pce - to Bachus
marni - (by the) magistrate
tuthi - (for the) state
tiu - (every) month
Ximthm:
Xia - pronoun - for them
casialth:
Ca - I command
sat - to be given
thi - imperative
lacthi - as king here
MariSL
maru - magistrate
menitle:
men - offer
afrs - ancestors
cialath:
ca (pronoun) I
sat - command
al given
th (imperative)
Xithm:
Xia - for them
avils - years
10 - (every) 10
eca - this
cepen - priests
tuthiu - the state
thux - in the month of Thux
iXu tevr:
iX - and
tev - they judge
hesNi:
hec - envoy
sni - san a spirit
Mulveni:
on account of this
(mul) vow
et (pronoun) this
zuci - offering
am- is
ar - to be made
mlaX/thanra:
mlak - a gift
thanra - for the founders
Calus/c
to the god Calus + and
ecnial
ca - pronoun - each
V - 5
avil - years
mi - I
menicac - men - give
marcalurcac:
maru - magistrate
Calus - of the god Calus
eth (pronoun) this
tuthiu - for the state
nesl - a dead person's
man - spirit
rivaX - riv+aX - judge + locative = the place of judgement
leScem - to die
tnucasi - tanasa - foundation
IN sum, 2,000 years of foundation rituals.
The spirals on the pottery may indicate quantity, quality,
or simply serve as "tax stamps".
THE PHAESTOS DISK
Using Laroche's values for "Hittite" Hieroglyphics:
SIDE 1 -
I.
[?]
[1. I] I
[181. Turpi] give
[?]
[?]
[327 seal] seal (swear)
.
II.
the boundaries?
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed ( are sworn for)
[326. writing] (by this) writing
III.
[1. I] I
[356. lords] (the) lords
[BATON?] I order?
[2. I myself]
IV.
[?]
[?]
the boundaries?
V.
porpoise - sailing time?
[225. city] (this) city
[58. with] with
[181. turpi] gifts
VI.
[480. you will] you will
[BATON?] I command
[245. building] (this) building
[370. sanctify] sanctify
VII.
[CLUB?] by the killing
[3. pronoun] (of a) man
[153. imperative] you will
porpoise - at sailing time?
VIII.
[286. associated with gods] to a god or to the gods
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[CLUB] the killing
[3. pronoun] a man
[245. building] for this building
IX.
[?]
[356. the lords] the lords
[193 month] (in the month) month
name of month= sailing ship?
X.
[327. seal] are sealed (sworn)
[225. city] (for this) city
[?]
[326. write] by this writing
XI.
[1. I] I
[108. abundance] (an) abundance
[160. wine] (of) wine
[?]
XII.
for the boundaries?
name of month,sailing ship
[189. spirit] by (the) spirit
[3. pronoun] of a man
XIII.
[LION - urmah] the king
[225. city]
[225. city] of this great city
[58. with] with
[326. write] this writing
XIV.
[280. you will] you will
YOKE - rule
[245 building] (this) building
XV.
[LION - urmah] the king
temporal - porpoise - sailing season?
[3. pronoun] him
XVI.
[4. goddess] goddess
[326. writing] by this writing
[13. priests] (you) priests
[153. imperative] you will
temporal - porpoise - sailing season?
XVII.
[1. I] I
[?]
the boundaries?
[3. pronoun] for them? him?
XVIII.
[LION urmah] the king
[160. wine] wine
[327. seal] sealed - (is sworn)
[41. give] (to) give
IXX.
[LION urmah] the king
[41 give] (will) give
CLUB a human sacrifice? war powers?
XX.
[LION urmah] the king
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXI.
[?]
[LION urmah] the king
[160. wine] (libations of) wine
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
[41. give] to give
XXII.
the boundaries?
[?]
[Baton] I command
ship - name of month?
XXIII.
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[245. building] building
[326. writing] (by this) writing
XXIV.
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[299. throne] (this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXV.
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[BATON] I command
[245. building] (the) building
[225. city] (of this) city
XXVI.
[?]
[LION urmah] the king
[160. wine] wine
[327. seal] sealed ( is sworn)
[41. give] (to) give
XXVII.
[?]
[110. ram] (A) ram
[153. imperative] you will
[245. building] (for this) building
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXVIII.
[1. I] I
[4. goddess] (for the) goddess
[36. write] (by this) writing
BATON - order
[327. seal] sealed (it sworn)
XXIX.
[LION - urmah] the king
[?]
BATON - I command
XXX.
[299. throne] (this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (is sworn)
SIDE 2
XXXI.
[?]
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
CLUB - the death
[3. pronoun] of a man
[245. building] (for this) building
XXXII.
[255. city] (for this) city
[?]
[181. turpi] give
XXXIII.
[lion urmah] the king
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327 seal] sealed (is sworn)
XXXIV.
[LION urmah]
[LION urmah] the great king
[?]
XXXV.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
a prisoner
[?]
porpoise - sailing time?
XXXVI.
the boundaries?
[299. throne] (of this) kingdom
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
[181. turpi] give
XXXVII.
the limits
[103. Deer God] (to the) Deer God
[41. give] give
XXXVIII.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
[4. goddess] (to the) goddess
[245. building] building
[193. month] month
IXL.
hallucinogenic mushrooms? (mushroom under wing)
[108. abundance] abundantly
[326. writing] (by this) writing
XL.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
[87. eleves - the nobles] nobles
[65. place] place (establish)
[326. writing] (by this) writing
XLI.
[3. pronoun] for them
[87. nobles] the nobles
[?]
[327. seal] sealed (sworn)
XLII.
[1. I] I
[181. turpi] give
[133. priests] priests
BATON command
[189. spirot] spirit
XLIII.
[153. imperative] You will
[?]
XLIV.
[1 I] I
the boundaries
ship- temporal?
FEATHER judge?
BATON command
[245. building] building
XLV.
hoof?
[3. pronoun]
XLVI.
[[1. I] I
[181. tur] give
hallucinogenic mushrooms? (mushroom under wing)
[108. abundance] abundance
LVII.
[1. I] I
[181 turpi] give
the boundaries
LVIII.
the boundaries
[326. write] (by this) writing
[356. the lords] the lords
[239., 464. gate] (of the) gate
LX.
CLUB - kill
[3. pronoun] a man
LXI.
FEATHER - judge
[10. man] a man's
[189. spirit] spirit
Not carefully the headdress of glyph 1, which is clearly Philistine.
It is likely that carved ivory stamps were used to inscribe the Phaestos Disk,
but whether they were of local manufacture or not is unknown.
Pallu-ili was among the languages spoken in the Hittite Empire, but whether these were identical with the Greek Pelasgasians is not known.
[In this context the Ancient Near Eastern practice of cutting off the hands of prisoners of war
may be relevant.]
THE MAVRO SPELIO RING
As can be seen from the seat marks on Crete, the spiral has royal associations.
As I mentioned elsewhere here, Dr. Brown's Linear A phonetic values await computer analysis of their phonetic loading.
(it is currently not known if the aspirates attach to the vowels or consonants.)
An attempted reading of this ring by Best. likely to be incorrect because he did not use Brown's values:
http://www.talanta.nl/wp-content/upload ... -17-26.pdf
SEAT MARK AT PHAESTOS
Seat Mark at Phaestos (click on link to view):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lgsdle9avq30 ... K.jpg?dl=0
note the distortions caused by overloading of Fletcher's computer.
STRUCTURE AT KNOSSOS
The seat mark at Knossos was effaced, or improperly reconstructed.
But there is this nice structure to the north of the palace (click on link to view):
https://db.tt/qQYfpuN1et
THE MAGLIANO INSCRIPTION
Using Pallottino's values (with extreme agglutinization):
Ca [demonstrative pronoun] this
uthas - is given
tuthiu - for the state
avils - for years
80 - 80
ez - (pronoun)
Ximthm - Xia pronoun - for them
casthIlth:
ca - pronoun - I
sat - judge
al pronoun -them
thi - to give
lacthi- as king here
hevn:
hec - to send
vn - wine
avil- year(ly)
nesl - (to the) dead person('s)
man - spirit
murinaSie:
mur - living+?
falzathi - in the sky there
aiseras - with the gods
in
eca - that
mene - place
mlaPcemari:
mla - a gift
Pce - to Bachus
marni - (by the) magistrate
tuthi - (for the) state
tiu - (every) month
Ximthm:
Xia - pronoun - for them
casialth:
Ca - I command
sat - to be given
thi - imperative
lacthi - as king here
MariSL
maru - magistrate
menitle:
men - offer
afrs - ancestors
cialath:
ca (pronoun) I
sat - command
al given
th (imperative)
Xithm:
Xia - for them
avils - years
10 - (every) 10
eca - this
cepen - priests
tuthiu - the state
thux - in the month of Thux
iXu tevr:
iX - and
tev - they judge
hesNi:
hec - envoy
sni - san a spirit
Mulveni:
on account of this
(mul) vow
et (pronoun) this
zuci - offering
am- is
ar - to be made
mlaX/thanra:
mlak - a gift
thanra - for the founders
Calus/c
to the god Calus + and
ecnial
ca - pronoun - each
V - 5
avil - years
mi - I
menicac - men - give
marcalurcac:
maru - magistrate
Calus - of the god Calus
eth (pronoun) this
tuthiu - for the state
nesl - a dead person's
man - spirit
rivaX - riv+aX - judge + locative = the place of judgement
leScem - to die
tnucasi - tanasa - foundation
IN sum, 2,000 years of foundation rituals.
The spirals on the pottery may indicate quantity, quality,
or simply serve as "tax stamps".
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:32 am, edited 47 times in total.
Re: Luwian notes
So, do I read that to say that it seems to depend in the sex of the subject?
The percentages seem about right.
The percentages seem about right.
Re: Luwian notes
Not for me. It smacks of structuralism .kbs2244 wrote:So, do I read that to say that it seems to depend in the sex of the subject?
The percentages seem about right.
Roughly 50:50 could also depend on many roughly even splits/binaries . Winter /summer . Republican /democrat . Sun /moon .
The figure omits context , which could be a factor in deciding in which direction the the spiral will go. e.g. top / bottom ,north /south , east /west of section of the panel that the engraving is found ,the need for balance i.e.
a motif similar to that found on spectacle fibulae where clockwise and anti clockwise spirals form either side . The relationship with other unmentioned motifs etc.
Re: Luwian notes
So,
Maybe on the wife's mood that morning?
Maybe on the wife's mood that morning?
Re: Luwian notes
Why not ,in some cases ? particularly is she was the engraver .kbs2244 wrote:So,
Maybe on the wife's mood that morning?
Or another among the myriad of possibilities .
And of course what might apply to one area and period might be entirely different to another period and place .