The Iliad: How Much Fact - How Much Fiction

[Beagle]

how much larger could the effects be?

A s**t load!

[Guest]

Bad luck for The Exodus Decoded, huh?

it is possible that the dating is subjective, but i am leaning towards some of humphreys findings at the moment.

[Beagle]

The tidal wave would have slammed into Alexandria - although at that time the city did not exist. Also it would have rolled over most of the Hellenic island kingdoms. They might make good candidates for Sea People.

[Guest]

They might make good candidates for Sea People.

i know minimlaist doesn't like him but charles pellegrino goes into that thought as well. he also goes into good detail about the actuall eruption and its results.

which are quite devastating and now they are saying it could have been worse?

[Minimalist]

"Not liking him" is irrelevant. I suspect he's a con man who tells bible thumpers what they want to hear.

I've been off checking out the Santorini tsunami and no one give an estimate of 800 feet. As in this case, 50 - 100 feet is more likely.

According to data derived from scientific research, the height of the tsunami waves ranged between 15 and 30 meters on Santorini and in northern Crete, based on the offshore geomorphology.

“It was probably a very harsh and violent tsunami,” Papadopoulos says. “It is estimated that the waves reached northern Crete 30 to 45 minutes after they were created [by the eruption]. The large height of the waves likely provoked a vast array of catastrophes at coastal Minoan sites. However, we don’t believe that [the tsunami] provoked the collapse of the Minoan civilization, which should be attributed to another era.”

Scientists came to this conclusion in part because they examined similar events in modern history, such as the recent tsunami in Indonesia.

http://tropaion.blogspot.com/2006_05_01 ... chive.html

[Guest]

here is what pellegrino has to say about the heighth of the waves-- pg. 208-9 'Return to Sodom and Gomorrah':

"The tidal waves alone producedhoorors. In some places, asin the Nile marshlands, the shape of the coast and the slope of the beach...piled the waters 4 stories hgh. But that was a mere ripple by comparison with what happened along parts of the turkish coastline, where two large penninsulas jutted out intothe direction of the blast, trapping the shock wave as if in the muthof a giant funnel. At the funnel's spout, the water shot 30 miles inland...To penetrate so far inland, the wave had to be 800 feet high.'

that is where i got the figure from though it is not a constant heighth throughout its path.

i don't think when he wrote his books thathe was trying to tell bible believers what they wanted to hear as he is too much of a scientist to stoop to doing that. i think he just investigated the theory and felt it was a possibility.

[Beagle]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6034367.stm

We can't prove the story of the Odyssey is true, but we can test whether Homer got his geography right," said Edinburgh University geologist Professor John Underhill, who is supervising the drilling operation

The search for Ithaca - using the Iliad as reference.

From Archaeologica news. Thanks Michelle.

[Beagle]

There is another article somewhere that speaks of the discovery of Ajax' palace, using the same reference. I'll see if I can find it.

[Beagle]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-4-28/40934.html

Six years of excavations at the site of Kanakia, on the southwestern tip of Salamina island, have revealed a maze of stone walls making up at least two major palatial complexes, the settlement around them stretching down to the natural port.

The building with the two great halls - or megara - covers 750 square metres (8,070 sq ft) and has 33 rooms on four levels. Unlike Mycenae, Salamina is not surrounded by great walls but is built with defence in mind, with narrow, guarded entrances.

Among the finds are tools, Cypriot pottery and bronzes, proof of relations with the eastern Mediterranean. But the most stunning discovery is a single bronze scale from an armour breastplate that bears the stamp of a famous Egyptian pharaoh.

Translated by professors Jacke Phillips and John Ray at Cambridge, it is the name of Ramesses II who ruled Egypt during the 13th century BC. Lolos said it was possible that Salamina men had fought as mercenaries in the army of Ramesses

Found it - interesting article.

[Barracuda]

They might make good candidates for Sea People

It might go a long way to explaining how a bunch of unrelated tribes moved out of the Aegean and into Egypt. I am not sure about time frames. It seems to me the eruption was dated 2-300 years before the invasion of Egypt, but then maybe it took that long to make the migration.

When we discuss the Iliad, how can be not discuss Hersilick, Turkey. There is so much evidence that it was the ancient site of Troy. What was the name of the German guy who dug there? His "evidence" turned out to be from the wrong period, but there is also other evidence backing up the theory.

[Beagle]

What was the name of the German guy who dug there?

Heinrich Schliemann - he was more of a treaure hunter than anything, but also a scholar of the Iliad. He could read the original Greek.

He also found Mycenae.

[Minimalist]

They might make good candidates for Sea People.

There is little doubt that the Philistines, at least, were Hellenic based on pottery types which coincide with the Philistine occupation of the Canaanite coast. The existing Canaanite forms were displaced by Greek-styles...with nary an Israelite to be found.

While Santorini did not destroy the Minoans it certainly weakened them to a great extent. Weakened to the point where they lost the ability to suppress the mainland Greeks? Probably.

There seemed to be a belief that Knossos was destroyed by war a century after being hammered by Santorini. I seem to recall some speculation that with the collapse of the Minoan-based trading element the other economies of the Bronze Age powers of the region began to suffer.

I'll have to look around for some links.

[oldarchystudent]

There is evidence of Mycenaean renovations at Knossos after an apparent takeover. Figure 8 shield motifs showing up etc.

As for the Illiad, where this all started, sorry if I'm repeating (I haven't read through all the thread) but there is evidence of fire and warfare (arrowheads in the streets etc) in Troy VIIa which dates to just before the collapse of Mycenaen supremecy. Theoretically the Mycenaeans were weakened by a prolonged war with the Trojans (?).

Of course, the Hittites were also attacking Troy at the time. I don't know if the arrowheads have been identified as Hittite, Mycenaean, Trojan or another source. Anyone know about that?

[Beagle]

http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/display.va ... ithaca.php

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Dig closes in on Homer’s Ithaca
An archaeological dig in Greece could "rewrite the book of western civilisation", according to one Kingston businessman.

Economist Robert Bittlestone, 53, claims his project to discover the true location of the island Ithaca, described by Homer in his epic poem The Odyssey in 800BC, will not only prove Homer's existence but also develop vital technology to predict earthquakes.

Mr Bittlestone returned last week from Cephalonia, where a team of geological experts completed tests that they hope will prove that Ithaca was not the modern island of Ithaki as previously supposed but in fact a western peninsula of Cephalonia now known as Paliki.

From the Archaeologica News section:

[Starflower]

I have been following this particular theory for a while now and can't wait to see if it pans out.

In his book, Odysseus Unbound, Mr Bittlestone claims the peninsula was once an island separated from Cephalonia by a narrow sea channel that has since been filled.

He said: "We drilled a borehole where we think the channel used to be.

"We think the core we drilled will be made up of loose rock and debris, not solid limestone bedrock, and that millions of tonnes of mountainside sheered off and filled the channel, joining the two islands years after Homer wrote his poem."

Oops, I really meant to post this bit there:

The test data is being analysed and the results will be unveiled early next year.

Then I was going to post the other and ask if anyone has read his book. He's not another pseudo whatever is he, cause that would really irritate me. Guess we'll know something if the results on the core testing get published.