Archaeologica.org

Posted: **Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:30 am**

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/ ... /late.html

Imports of lapis lazuli tell us that their trading went as far as Badakhshan in Afghanistan. Lapis lazulis was traded across land and by ocean via the Persian Gulf to Sumer. Evidence of a brief period of either direct or indirect contact with cultures in Mesopotamia during the late Gerzean time was found. Some of the influence from Southwestern Asia can be seen from pottery paralleled in Mesopotamia and Palestine, seal stones with Mesopotamian motifs-interlacing ophidians, master of animals, griffin with wings, and the complex niched-facade mud brick architecture paralleled in Sumer where it was used for the decoration of the temples of the gods

Lapis is a soft blue stone that, in antiquity, was only mined in a region of Afghanistan. It was easily crushed into a pigment that produced the deep, beautiful paints used in Egyptian and Mesopotamian art. It was also used by Egyptians, as far back as pre-dynastic times, as cosmetics, such as the well known eye shadow, etc.

Later, it was used in the paintings of the Middle Ages and forward.

At the time of it's first known use in Egypt, the mining of the Lapis would be at the time of the Indus Valley civilization ( Harrapan).

Trade links, even at that time, spread from the Indus Valley, through Mesopotamia, to Egypt.

Posted: **Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:47 pm**

What are you saying, Beagle?

Posted: **Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:10 pm**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapis_lazuli

Lapis only comes from one place in that part of the world. So when we see evidence of the use of Lapis as long ago as 5000 BC we know where it came from.

At the very beginning of Egypts civilization, it was being used. It is interesting to see how extensive the trade links were between the Harrapan, Mesopotamian, and Egyptian civilizations.

Today it is also mined in the Andes, but it is not of the same quality.

Posted: **Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:30 pm**

It was also used by Egyptians, as far back as pre-dynastic times, as cosmetics, such as the well known eye shadow, etc.

At the time of it's first known use in Egypt, the mining of the Lapis would be at the time of the Indus Valley civilization

these two statements are mutually exclusive

the Harappan civilisation didn't really get going til after 2800bce

Posted: **Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:56 pm**

[url]http://www.controverscial.com/Lapis%20Lazuli.htm[/url

Mines, in what is known as the Badakshan area of Afghanistan today, were being worked for Lapis at least six thousand years ago. This source of Lapis may be the oldest continually worked set of mines in the world, as the same mines operating today supplied the sought-after stone to the pharaohs. Believed to have occult powers, Lapis Lazuli was often made into amulets and talismans. In Ur, kings were known to sharpen their swords on it, believing from this they would become invulnerable. The stone was also used by the Assyrians and Persians for making seals.

The Sumerians believed that Lapis Lazuli contained the spirits of the deities. In ancient Egypt it was often used as an inscription stone for various passages from "The Book of the Dead" wherein the 140th chapter it states that Lapis in the shape of an eye and set in gold was an amulet of great power. Egyptians regarded it as the stone of the gods, partly because it reminded them of the starry heavens, but also because, as shown in the Papyrus Ebers, it had medicinal properties that improved eyesight when worn in the form of the Eye of Horus amulet or when powdered around the eyes as many Egyptian did.

Lapis Lazuli was one of the stones in the "Breastplate of Judgement" of Aaron, as described in the Bible. In ancient times, Lapis Lazuli was known as Sapphire (not to be confused with today's blue corundum variety Sapphire). Ancient writers such as Pliny refer to "sapphirus" as a stone speckled with flects of gold -- obviously a reference to Lapis Lazuli.

Beware of funky music.

Posted: **Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:01 pm**

In Ur, kings were known to sharpen their swords on it, believing from this they would become invulnerable

It didn't work
i can't but help think they read the instructions wrong
what they should have done was made their armour from it

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:06 pm**

OK...I'll show my ignorance and say that I haven't given much
thought to the earliest "trade" between the first "civilizations."

I know that in the lithic age the best stones for making points and scrapers were carried over long distances, maybe traded...

So you think the trade between the Indus and the Nile was sanctioned by the goverment? Did the Indus guys send sales reps to the Nile?
Was it barter, or was money involved?

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:23 pm**

There were probably middle men involved.

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:39 pm**

There were probably middle men involved.

yeah they were called Priests
some people say they're still around today doing the same thing but i think thats a matter of faith

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:34 pm**

There were probably middle men involved.

I wonder if the middlemen were citizens of the city-states or some kind of nomadic group who lived beyond the pale and
specialized in trade?

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:51 pm**

stan wrote:
There were probably middle men involved.
I wonder if the middlemen were citizens of the city-states or some kind of nomadic group who lived beyond the pale and
specialized in trade?

look at the n european (mined) salt trade, if you really want to have fun. believe its referred to as the "hallstatt" culture"

read "salt" by mark kurlansky, penguin books, 2002.

j

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:03 pm**

If there is a demand for a product merchants will always be found to move it, in short stages if nothing else.

Still.......Afghanistan to Egypt is quite a hike.

But we know that it got there.

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:23 pm**

Yeah, it got there.
But the question of regulation, taxation..
And maybe even orders were sent for
x amount of lapis, to be delivered by such and
such a time...

and what about the medium of exchange.?

Thanks for the recommendation about the salt trade, john.

I know, I need to just research it...

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:15 pm**

iirc certain minerals were forbidden to anyone but royalty
and certain colours
imperial rome with its purple
in mesopotamia the imperial colour was blue
as were the walls of Babylon

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:23 pm**

But the question of regulation, taxation..

The quintessential 'chicken and egg' question, Stan.

Did the trade exist first or did the governments along the way exist first?

IOW, were the merchants clamoring for 'protection' from the hazards of the journey and thus governments arose to provide that service, OR, did trade arise after governments were established to control certain areas in the first place?