Dragons!

[Cognito]

Please, please Arch tell me you don't really believe dinosaurs and HSS were about at the same time?

While you're at it would you also tell everyone that Methusaleh was 969 years old when he kicked the bucket? Please? Huh?

[Minimalist]

Remember what's at stake.

[Guest]

While you're at it would you also tell everyone that Methusaleh was 969 years old when he kicked the bucket?

i think this belongs in another thread but i noticed an error in the calculation. someone said that methusaleh based upon a base 60 calculated his life to be 16 years of age.

methusaleh's total was calculated in normal time not base 60 so people who divide 969 on a base 60 scale are doing the wrong calculation, they need to find the equivelant of 969 in base 60 before dividing the total down and the number should be either 969 or larger than 16 but not 16.

i hope i explained that right. the systems can't cross until all calculations are the same for all sides of the equation.

[War Arrow]

i am not sure but i read or heard of one theory that the term for dragon in the middle ages often refered to dinosaurs that were still living. (not my theory). one reason why they are extinct today because it was a sport to just hunt them.

I know it's not your theory, and believe me, no-one would like to believe in real live dinosaurs still being around (post KT extinction, even present day if at all possible) more than me. And I really mean no-one. I don't go to the Natural History Museum here in London that much because I get too emotional and choked up, and so you can probably tell which side I was rooting for in Jurassic Park - but all the same, I'm really not buying this one, much as I dearly wish it were true.

Anyway, pursuing the Viking line (unless I'm getting my European cultures mixed up - I'm pretty muddy on a lot of it, the stuff on your side of the Atlantic (US readers) just looks a lot more interesting to me) as in Beowulf, dragon imagery etc. I understand those norse geezers were extremely well travelled and followed large rivers right into the heart of Russia and down into the upper reaches of the middle east and would therefore have stood a good chance of coming into contact with similarly well-travelled dragonophile eastern cultures.

Can I qualify this? Er... well I definitely saw a programme about it on TV. Not much use I know, but maybe someone else here might be more familiar with this story.

[Beagle]

I saw the same program W/A. Pretty well done I thought.

[War Arrow]

Thank Quetzalcoatl for that! I was starting to think I might have dreamt it. Again.

[Minimalist]

The Vikings did settle in Russia....they probably loved the climate. They also conquered Palermo, so they got around.

[marduk]

assyrian picture of Bel Marduk and his pet dragon Tiamat circa 500bce

babylonian picture of Bel Marduk fighting his enemy Tiamat circa 1500bce

same picture
same story
different cultural perspective
the Assyrians weren't a maritime culture
the Babylonians were descended from the Sumerians who were
so as they told and retold the story over time the monster becmae less and less attched to the sea
first it got legs
then it got wings
then the Hebrews took up the story and gave it cloven hooves and a trident
good fiction changes with the people who tell it
ce la vie

[War Arrow]

Right. Let's see if I can post this without my sodding antivirus company hijacking my computer mid-f*****g-sentence.
This may be a bit of an obvious point, but further to this parallel (as stated in my pm) Mexican serpents were symbolically related to earthworms and thus associated with the earth or the underworld. Serpent + underworld = the man downstairs with the horns and pointy beard.

[marduk]

Mexican serpents were symbolically related to earthworms

where are you getting that from ?

[War Arrow]

There's an illustration somewhere - something along the lines of subterranean serpents pushing up plants from below ground, but I'm going to have to look for it. In the mean time, from Frances Kartunnen's Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl (University of Oklahoma Press):

COA-TL pl: COCOAH ~ COAMEH snake, serpent, worm; twin... and so on and so forth

[Digit]

I though I'd keep out of this one, then I thought again.
Has anyone ever seen a large meteorite break up in the sky? I read once that that might have been the origin, in China at least, for the Dragon.

[stan]

Digit, I'd like to see that. Have you?
I did see a bolide once as a kid, and it was pretty scary.
It was a brilliant white streak with red edges.

War Arrow:
Just to reinforce the Amerindian draconian associations:
The Apaches refused to eat fish because of the underworld connotations.

[Digit]

Yes Stan, just the once, as a child. It was many years before I read that this might be the reason for the dragon as many meteorites are remnants of comets, and so orbit the sun. The one I saw must have been very low as the tail was wavy, I assume from high altitude winds, and the head was much wider so that it did appear to be attacking the sun. I understand that this is what the Chinese believed. By the way, if I remember correctly it was simply bright but left a trail that lasted for some time. I also remember it seemed to move relatively slowly. I saw a similar slow moving one on TV once and that too left a cloud trail.

[stan]

That's a great memory to have.