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Saharan 'Library' Found
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:54 am
by Minimalist
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/sc_ ... scripts_dc
TIMBUKTU, Mali (Reuters) - Researchers in Timbuktu are fighting to preserve tens of thousands of ancient texts which they say prove Africa had a written history at least as old as the European Renaissance.
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:42 pm
by stan
Although the article doesn't say so, I presume the texts are mostly in Arabic. Northern Africa,of which Mali is a part, has had literature for a long time, due to Islamic scholarship, and
others before that.
This is a big discovery anyway. It could be that there are some unknown gems among all those documents.
Tibuktu
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:40 pm
by Cognito
Although the article doesn't say so, I presume the texts are mostly in Arabic. Northern Africa,of which Mali is a part, has had literature for a long time, due to Islamic scholarship, and
others before that. This is a big discovery anyway. It could be that there are some unknown gems among all those documents.
Stan, you are correct. The documents are written in Arabic and Timbuktu was a center of Islamic learning.
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:34 pm
by Leona Conner
[quote][b]Some academics say the texts will force the West to accept Africa has an intellectual history as old as its own. Others draw comparisons with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls[/b][/quote]
The G.O.D.s (aka The Club) ain't gonna like this. They've spent too much time and effort trying to convince the world that the Europeans were top dogs when it came to being civilized and all that. Does anyone actually believe that they are going to say "oooooh, guess we were wrong, weren't we" don't bet on it.
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:41 pm
by Minimalist
LOL, Leona.
The one thing to hope for are Arabic translations of ancient Greco-Roman texts which can be compared to existing ones and maybe fill in some of the blanks.
Arabic Texts
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:34 pm
by Cognito
The one thing to hope for are Arabic translations of ancient Greco-Roman texts which can be compared to existing ones and maybe fill in some of the blanks.
Now that would be interesting! Most Greek texts were translated to Latin after the fall of Constantinople in 1453, being shuffled off to Rome immediately prior to that date. Most originals wound up in the Vatican Libary (ie "Club" at the time). It would not only be interesting to fill in the blanks, but also to compare translations of the same document from two totally different cultures.
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:51 pm
by Minimalist
You mean like.....Josephus?
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:14 pm
by stan
The article states that the documents may only go back to
the time of the European Renaissance, so they are not really old enough to challenge Europe or the Middle East, India, or China in the area of ancient literature.
As Cognito said, though, there may be surviving translations of ancient texts.
Other gems might be original historical accounts of such things as the interface between the Muslim and Animist Africans or between the Muslims and Europe, for that matter. Philosophical or mathematical texts. Linguistic
treatises. Folklore.
Could be that the trove could include something like the lost codices of Latin America. Who knows what?
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:50 pm
by Minimalist
But the subject of the books need not be modern. Ancient texts were copied and re-copied throughout the middle ages. As this citation notes,
http://users.drew.edu/ddoughty/Christia ... cnero.html
We have one ancient document which asserts that Nero persecuted Christians and that document is a copy of Tacitus' Annals of Ancient Rome which dates to the 11th century,
But the real question concerns the historical reliability of this information -- i.e., whether we have to do here with a later Christian insertion. When I consider a question such as this, the first question to ask is whether it conceivable or perhaps even probable that later Christians might have modified ancient historical sources; and the answer to this question certainly must be yes! Then, with regard to this particular source, I note that the earliest manuscript we have for the Annales dates from the 11th century, and must therefore have been copied and recopied many times, by generations of Christian scribes (and Christian apologists). So there were certainly many opporunities to modify what Tacitus originally wrote.
It would be interesting to see if a text from a different time and place reflects the words that Tacitus allegedly wrote.
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:45 am
by stan
I agree, but that other potential stuff may be of great interest, too.
i also wonder if there are different versions of the Koran?
Is there a KJ version??
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:04 pm
by bandit
Good article, but the "find" has been an ongoing process for many many years.
I read about this over two years ago. It was written up in Archaeology Magazine that covered the background of the collection. For those interested here is a link, but it is only an abstract. Those of you who keep your copies of the mag look to the July/August 2004 issue pages 36 - 40.
It's really quite interesting.
http://www.archaeology.org/0407/abstracts/timbuktu.html
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:25 am
by War Arrow
I understand the history of (non-Egypt/fertile crescent) Africa is near criminally neglected. My knowledge of Africa was pretty much Alex Haley and that's it. The British Museum dug a gallery's worth of stuff out the basement a few years ago and my God was that an eye opener (especially Benin)! I get the impression that Africa had civilisations in spades (nothing on a Greek scale, but civilisation nonetheless) and it's a combination of politics, money, and attention focused elsewhere that's deprived it of the scrutiny it deserves. Maybe this 'library' will bring a bit more attention to the cause, and maybe even shed light on this arcaeologically neglected country.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:53 pm
by Minimalist
and it's a combination of politics, money, and attention focused elsewhere that's deprived it of the scrutiny it deserves.
I'm not sure if "racism" belong in your list or as the reason for the other 3?
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:25 am
by War Arrow
Minimalist wrote:I'm not sure if "racism" belong in your list or as the reason for the other 3?
Well, I guess so. The popular image of Africa (excepting Egypt etc.) as a huge continent full of cannibals and spear-weilding nudists seems to have held sway since the days of slavery. It's definitely high-time for a revision of that image. aside from the matter of historical interest, it would certainly (I hope) strike a blow against the present day persistence of racist myths regarding people of African ancestry.
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:09 pm
by stan
I have taught quite a few Africans over the years here in the US and have found them to be intelligent, civil, hospitable and enjoyable people.
It is refreshing to be around black people who don't automatically
resent you.