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Looting!
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:48 am
by Minimalist
Lead Story in the Local Paper
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... r1112.html
An estimated 80 percent of the nation's ancient archaeological sites have been plundered or robbed by shovel-toting looters. Though some of the pillaging is done by amateurs who don't know any better, more serious damage is wrought by professionals who dig deep, sometimes even using backhoes.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:59 am
by War Arrow
It's pretty disgusting and as usual it's money that's too blame. The thing I got from the article is that someone who's prepared to probe the ground with a pole is obviously pretty enterprising, so it's a shame some of these people couldn't direct all that creative energy into doing the same thing in an official (and obviously somewhat more considered) capacity. I guess if you want to buy a boat, becoming an archaeologist isn't the easiest way to do it.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:14 am
by Minimalist
Perhaps the simpler answer is that the market for artifacts in museums does not pay as well as the market for private collectors? This goes back to the question that Arch raised about is it better to dig them all up or leave them in the ground?
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:21 am
by Minimalist
A companion piece in the same paper...interesting, to say the least.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... owens.html
It is not the first time he's been busted. In 1986 , Owens and a brother were arrested in a government sting involving stolen Indian pottery. He pleaded guilty and paid a $200 fine in that case.
Owens declines to talk about the pending charges against him, but readily discusses and his lifelong love for Indian lore and archaeology. His voice fills with awe talking about people who roamed Arizona 800 years ago, living in homes that could only be entered by way of a ladder to the roof, making beautiful earthenware. "I live it," Owens says. "Every pot is different. Every style has its own formula of clays, slips and paints."
Owens notes that there are millions of ruins on private land where artifact hunters can dig if they have permission, or if they buy the property. In fact, he made pot-hunting a career after a rancher offered to sell him land full of archaeological treasures. And he knows of several diggers who purchased residential plots near Globe that are checkered with pristine ruins. After artifacts are harvested, the land is flipped.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:45 am
by Digit
Change the date, change the locality and you have Egypt. Somethings never change, I sometimes wonder if the Discovery programmes that I watch so avidly simply increase the market for these artefacts.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:36 pm
by War Arrow
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... owens.html
It says something when the guy who got nabbed for this speaks up in support of the laws that helped him get nabbed. And an archaeological sting operation?!?! I expect it won't be long before we get the tie-in cop show.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:18 pm
by Minimalist
He pleaded guilty and paid a $200 fine in that case.
Why not? A rather minor cost of doing business.
Looting
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:31 pm
by Cognito
Owens notes that there are millions of ruins on private land where artifact hunters can dig if they have permission, or if they buy the property. In fact, he made pot-hunting a career after a rancher offered to sell him land full of archaeological treasures. And he knows of several diggers who purchased residential plots near Globe that are checkered with pristine ruins. After artifacts are harvested, the land is flipped.
Touchy subject in the U.S., but private lands should not be looted. This guy says he loves artifacts but every time he picks one up to line his pockets he is ruining its provenance. I would like to see criminal charges imposed on those who loot privately owned sites for profit. And hand him over to native tribes for appropriate punishment?
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:29 pm
by Minimalist
Can "private lands" be looted if the owner does or contracts the looting?
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:16 am
by War Arrow
The $200 fine kind of suggests the law is, in this case, being applied only because justice has to be seen to be done.
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:53 am
by Bruce
http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/2006 ... /108080079
After being released back to the site on Saturday, Thompson found more bones and put them in a small bag for the coroner.
Early on Monday, Windsor Police Chief John Michaels said the investigation had been completed and a missing person case had been "ruled out."
"No, it's over," Michaels said of a possible ongoing investigation. "The coroner has determined it was a Native American."
Around here this stuff is just dismissed, not even worth looting! No study of the site, no dating of the bones, just some poor indian got in the way of a sprinkler system. These burb's are my "digs" and frankly I don't show many people what I find. Usually it's only peices anyway scattered over a dirt pile. Or rock that has come out of the river bottom and been through the rock crusher. In my opinion all the sites that were worth anything were destroyed long ago and are now the towns and cities we live in. I'm really torn on this "looting". If the artifact is preserved and documented properly, isn't that better than it being gobbled up by the 'burbs?
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:52 am
by Charlie Hatchett
Can "private lands" be looted if the owner does or contracts the looting?
In the U.S., a land owner owns all the resources, including anything under the surface...unless the individual sold off the mineral rights. So, yes, private property owners can do as they please with the land...unless it was previously designated as a historical site, or public lands, prior to their purchase of the property. The people that owned the Gault Site were actually conducting their own excavation, when they ran across the mastodon...then they contacted U.T...they knew they couldn't get it out properly, without screwing it big time. Apparently they had morals. They too, as is my case, solicitated professional help for many years...the mastodon did it. A number of very high dollar, killer artifacts, the owners recovered, are still in private collections, bought by private collectors, available for viewing online:
DWAIN ROGERS COLLECTION- Dwain is "the" stone artifact authenticator for central Texas, and plays a very vital role in the archeological community.
Sweeeeetttttt!!!
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:05 pm
by Minimalist
One can only marvel at the technique used to make those notches, Charlie.
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:27 pm
by Digit
I can knap flint, but after seeing that image I think I'll crawl away into a corner. It's not a tool, it's art!
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:34 pm
by Charlie Hatchett
One can only marvel at the technique used to make those notches, Charlie.
I can knap flint, but after seeing that image I think I'll crawl away into a corner. It's not a tool, it's art!
Bad Mofo's..the makers of these Andice points. There dated around 9500-7100 B.P. It's really hard to find one fully intact, because of the extremely long barbs.