Homo Erectus/Neanderthal in North America?

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marduk

Post by marduk »

With all due respect that sounds like the proposal to shut the US Patent Office in 1848 because everything that could possibly be invented had already been invented.
so what you are saying is that the U.S. patent office makes decisions without any evidence to support them
so i could go patent matter transporters or warp drive and when someone finally invents them i'm quids in
People who carried on Darwins work relied on evidence
they didn't come up with a new idea based on speculation
did they ?
:lol:
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

Don't drag the analogy out too far.


People who carried on Darwins work relied on evidence

This is a little chicken and egg-ish. I would tend to say that they get off their butts and go out and find evidence and then see how it fits into the theory.

If someone were to find a tyranosaurus rex with a clovis point stuck in its ass I think the fallout would be rather dramatic. Arch would wet his pants! However, I don't think it is the kind of thing that one can looking for. Put another way, would a reputable paleontologist ignore twenty tyranosaur skeletons if they did not have a clovis point stuck in their asses?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist »

It figures that you two would clash. Marduk and Minimalist. Youre' really a lot alike in that you both are against the established dogma and you're both smartasses. It's an argument waiting to happen. Dudes! You're both my friends and it's ripping me apart! (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) I think you both actually agree on most things but are predisposed to argue at any opportunity. (Shakes head) T-rex with a clovis point in his ass. LMAO! You guys!
marduk

Post by marduk »

I concur
until they find a T rex with a clovis point in its ass then theres little point even pretending it might be data worth considering to come up with a theory about how our ancient ancestors hunted T Rex with clovis points
:lol:
surely according to Sitchin and Cayce and Blavatsky and probably Hancock they'd have been using lasers anyway
:idea: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

and you're both smartasses

Smartass? Moi???
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
marduk

Post by marduk »

smartass ?
watashi ?
:lol:
Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist »

I calls 'em like I sees 'em. 8)
grunabona246
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:54 am

Post by grunabona246 »

i thought the facts beagle posted about modern caucasians, taken together, indicate interbreeding with neanderthals very clearly. after all, 40,000 years is not a long time in terms of evolution.

a significant change in the largest bone of the body without interbreeding seems very unlikely to me, given the time frame involved. that, plus all the other alleged evolutionary changes in skin, hair, etc., over such a short period of time, makes the politically incorrect idea of neanderthal dna in some of us more than just a possibility in my view. certainly, the mapping should be done to answer the obvious question, one way or the other.
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

a significant change in the largest bone of the body without interbreeding seems very unlikely to me

As good a reason as any for proceeding with the study.

Perhaps, if there is no genetic evidence of interbreeding and none for HSS having evolved from HNS the study will eventually be able to identify the Remote Common Ancestor.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
marduk

Post by marduk »

Image
was that erect guy that did it
:lol:
Last edited by marduk on Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

grunabona246 wrote:i thought the facts beagle posted about modern caucasians, taken together, indicate interbreeding with neanderthals very clearly. after all, 40,000 years is not a long time in terms of evolution.

a significant change in the largest bone of the body without interbreeding seems very unlikely to me, given the time frame involved. that, plus all the other alleged evolutionary changes in skin, hair, etc., over such a short period of time, makes the politically incorrect idea of neanderthal dna in some of us more than just a possibility in my view. certainly, the mapping should be done to answer the obvious question, one way or the other.

Yes, Gruna, I said in another post also that if there is no trace of the HNS genome in modern Europeans I will have to rethink my understanding of evolution.

It's important to remember that Neandertal, who appeared around 250,000 ya was the end product of nearly a million years of evolution in Europe. He was completely adapted to a northern latitude. Modern Europeans are also in a relative sense - having many of HNS features - more than I mentioned in the earlier post.

There is no arguing with DNA evidence however. What has been studied so far is mitochondrial DNA. As we all know from high school biology, the mitochondria is an organelle that exists in the cytoplasm of the cell. It has it's own DNA that is only passed on through the mother.

The real action is in the nucleus of the cell. Here exists the DNA that form chromosomes and genes. This genetic blueprint is who we are. Both parents contribute this genetic material.

I don't know enough about these new gene splicing techniques that are being used to comment on them. But, using them, scientists are trying to reconstruct the HNS genome.

Like the Bosnian pyramid, there is nothing to do but wait.
grunabona246
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:54 am

Post by grunabona246 »

Beagle wrote:
grunabona246 wrote:i thought the facts beagle posted about modern caucasians, taken together, indicate interbreeding with neanderthals very clearly. after all, 40,000 years is not a long time in terms of evolution.

a significant change in the largest bone of the body without interbreeding seems very unlikely to me, given the time frame involved. that, plus all the other alleged evolutionary changes in skin, hair, etc., over such a short period of time, makes the politically incorrect idea of neanderthal dna in some of us more than just a possibility in my view. certainly, the mapping should be done to answer the obvious question, one way or the other.

Yes, Gruna, I said in another post also that if there is no trace of the HNS genome in modern Europeans I will have to rethink my understanding of evolution.

It's important to remember that Neandertal, who appeared around 250,000 ya was the end product of nearly a million years of evolution in Europe. He was completely adapted to a northern latitude. Modern Europeans are also in a relative sense - having many of HNS features - more than I mentioned in the earlier post.

There is no arguing with DNA evidence however. What has been studied so far is mitochondrial DNA. As we all know from high school biology, the mitochondria is an organelle that exists in the cytoplasm of the cell. It has it's own DNA that is only passed on through the mother.

The real action is in the nucleus of the cell. Here exists the DNA that form chromosomes and genes. This genetic blueprint is who we are. Both parents contribute this genetic material.

I don't know enough about these new gene splicing techniques that are being used to comment on them. But, using them, scientists are trying to reconstruct the HNS genome.

Like the Bosnian pyramid, there is nothing to do but wait.


i agree with your thinking on this. the nuclear dna will give the answer if there are sufficient neanderthal samples available for testing.

personally, i think of neanderthals as being very close cousins, at the very least, and don't understand the apparent discomfort, if not fear, some feel concerning possible interbreeding and dna contribution.
Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist »

I don't know if "discomfort" is the right word, grun. You have studies out there, such as this, which dismiss the idea and unless or until they are overturned, they seem to be the (current) last word.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/694467.stm


Modern humans do not have Neanderthal ancestors in their family tree, a new DNA study concludes.
The DNA extracted from the ribs of a Neanderthal infant buried in southern Russia 29,000 years ago was found to be too distinct from modern human DNA to be related.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Beagle
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Tennessee

Post by Beagle »

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/nea ... _2006.html

I enjoy John Hawks' website. Here he has some thoughts about the Neandertal Genome Project.
grunabona246
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:54 am

Post by grunabona246 »

Beagle wrote:http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/nea ... _2006.html

I enjoy John Hawks' website. Here he has some thoughts about the Neandertal Genome Project.

beagle,

thanks to you, i'm going to enjoy the john hawks weblog also. that's like finding a treasure trove for me.
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