Caral, Peru

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:37 pm

stan wrote:

For you big rock fans, here's a look at a detail from Caral.

I have to admit that I'm not a big rock fan.

stan · Post by **stan** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:33 pm

Where to you get those emoticons??

(Actually, I know...but I can't get em for my mac.)

Here's what the tour guide companies are showing perspective travelers
to Caral:

You know the've found dozens of musical instruments at Caral...flutes and
horns.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:40 pm

Can you imagine the racket?

stan · Post by **stan** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:51 pm

Yes, a mighty screechin...but I would like to participate if I could travel back in space and time.
And eat some great seafood!

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:31 pm

My vision of hell is fifty 12 year olds playing flutes for eternity.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:34 pm

Jean Paul Sartre said Hell was being locked in a room for all eternity with your friends
I'd have to agree with his interpretation
all his friends were french

john · Post by **john** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:47 pm

Minimalist wrote:My vision of hell is fifty 12 year olds playing flutes for eternity.

you're an amateur, min. mark twain's vision of hell (one of many) is every single dead christian, all gone to heaven, singing perpetual hosannas to the big guy. and he notes, that, statistically, most are singing horribly out of tune. further, that this goes on FOREVER. twain preferred conventional hell to that heaven.

john

ps

read "letters from the earth"

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:02 pm

I REALLY hate the flute.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:35 pm

marduk wrote:the olmec are on it in the gulf line from 1400bce
as for Caral i presume that is because not everyone has heard of the Norte chico culture or the Supe valley
some would like to forget it and others already have it linked to white gods atlanteans or aliens. Persoanlly i'd like to wait for the evidence
i think i heard thatthe Quipu found in the temple were left after the city had fallen into ruin which would indicate a definite connection with the Incan culture
but the orientation of south american architecture is a little hard to miss
this is Caral

this is Teotihuacan

this is chichen itza

Do you see what they all have in common Stan ?
Anthony Aveni (archaeoastronomer colgate university)
claims its because they are all aligned to the planet venus
but I don't buy it

Is there some sort of a legend to that chart?
in the ancient mists of time the creator god smiled down upon the face of his wife the earth and they decided between them to create life so that they would.....
waddya mean some kind of legend Min
its self explanatory

Actually, I would bet that they are, indeed , aligned toward Venus.

Especially since that is the determination of an archaeoastronomer. The planet Venus loomed large in their religion, although I'm not sure anyone knows why.

Let's do this!

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:52 pm

i asked him that myself
he was quite cooperative
until i showed him this

the white temple plan at Uruk also orientated the same way
which is known to have been built that way by records left by the architects who aligned it with the vernal rising of the pleaides because that constellation was the new year marker around which the ritual year was based
it was built in 3000bce
then theres this

the ziggurat of Ur nammu built around 2000bce also aligned to the pleaides but more to the right because the position of the vernal pleiades has moved due to precession

at this point he stopped talking to me
and shortly afterwards released a book claiming that it was Venus that mesoamerican temples were aligned to

if you go back and look at the Caral picture you'll notice that most of the buildings face almost the same way but some are aligned more to the right signifying two main stages of construction
and venus being a planet doesn't change its position in relation to the earth like a distant constellation does
but you know
books - prestige - money

if you now go back and look very closely at the three mesoamerican maps i posted you should notice a slight difference in angle between the oldest Chavin and Teotihuacan which are contemporary with each other and chichen itza which was laid out a little later

the mesoamerican you may remember tended to build on the ruins of their temples again and again which accounts for the slight change whereas the sumerians ripped a building down to the foundations and salvaged all the bricks and started over which is why their temples are always facing the vernal rising of the pleiades from which you can work out a pretty precise date for their construction

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:03 pm

You really should have said this back when Stan asked you follow up with you non-answer. But I think we knew that you would go with the Sumerians.

There is a big problem with that Marduk. The Pleides figured big in the Sumerians religion and Venus filled the big role in the meso-americas. The calendars were even based on Venus.

BTW - I've been wondering why you never posted your thoughts about the Nebra Disc that Stan started. I read that you had some different ideas.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:17 pm

where did i say that the sumerians originated the idea Beagle
just because i've spent a lot of time researching them it doesn't mean i'm in love with them like Arch is with his bible and am intent on attributing everything to them
Its just that they left better records than anyone else so by studying them you are actually studying the ancient world mindset with information supplied by people who were there
it works in egypt as well
nobody knows for sure in what order the Gizamids were built

but it is assumed the Khafre pyramid being central was the first built
you can then use the apex of the menkaure pyramid as a marker for the vernal rising of the Pleiades in 2500bce
the Khufu pyramid would appear to have been built so that the year could be calculated by the position that the constellation would rise between the two
like a calibrated gunsight

heres the osireion and the temple of seti the first which was aligned to it rather than anything else because it interfered with its foundations

see its not just Sumer
its everywhere
heres stonehenge

once again the northeast alignement is there
of course orthodoxy claims that stonehenge is aligned to the rising of the midsummer sunrise
but havent yet provided an answer as to why the heelstone was moved in antiquity from several feet to the left of its current position
p.s. don't tell the druids
you'd make them cry

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:35 pm

thanks, guys,
What an excellent seminar!

Just to clarify...the orientation of the pyramids points to the place on the horizon where venus or the plieades rises on the vernal equinox?

and
What about the fact that Teotihuacan and Caral are in different hemispheres, and the seasons are reversed?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:03 pm

Good question Stan.

Marduk in this forum we enjoy well thought out ideas. You've put in a lot of energy on these things and we like seeing them. Welcome into the light.

I still disagree. In addition to Stans' question, every ancient culture had their deities and tended to form their society around them. As far as I know they didn't worship any Pleiadean deities.

This practice was still in use by the Spanish monks in Texas. All of the Spanish missions had open plazas that pointed South, toward mexico city.
Including the Alamo. I don't want to get off point though.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:57 pm

Just to clarify...the orientation of the pyramids points to the place on the horizon where venus or the plieades rises on the vernal equinox?

okay
let me give you an analogy
imagine that theres a mountain 100 miles north from where you are standing and there is a telegraph pole 100ft north of where you are standing
when you move 50 feet to the left what direction is the telegraph pole and what direction is the mountain
see venus being a relatively close object to the earth moves around a great deal but an object like a constellation which is many light years away doesn't move perceptibly
it doesn't matter what way you turn when looking at the distant object it will still be in the same position relative to the earth.

I still disagree. In addition to Stans' question, every ancient culture had their deities and tended to form their society around them. As far as I know they didn't worship any Pleiadean deities.

I think you should do a little research on that Beagle you might be quite surprised
http://www.pleiade.org/pleiades_02.html