Europes Oldest Civilization Discovered

[Minimalist]

He describes himself as a Sumerologist

Does that mean he studies sumo wrestlers?

[Beagle]

Got me

[marduk]

so if its possible for you to actually post something not nonsensical this time and politely i will respond in kind

just incapable aren't you
until you become more proficient at reasonable debate you can joke about Osmaganich and new age weirdos all you like, you're on your own
personally i would have expected more from someone who claims to be a professional Archaeologist, professional people don't act as retarded as you nor as uninformed
tell me
are you currently employed on the tills at Tesco's or Asda's or are you still looking for work and wondering why no one will hire you ?

[Guest]

just incapable aren't you
until you become more proficient at reasonable debate

This comes from someone who made ludicrous statements about the Picts several pages ago, has been asked several times to provide actual "evidence" to back them up, and can't do so because he knows he made it all up off the top of his head.
Until YOU become more proficient at reasonable debate-in about a decade, when you finally leave school- stick to "Sumerology".

[marduk]

i have already provided you with sources that back my assertion
one of them was a source that you offered and claimed didn't
hate to be wrong don't you

[Frank Harrist]

Now I'm wondering which of you is right. Why don't ya'll post your best evidence so I can decide who to believe. Knock off the personal attacks and give me some evidence. You also might learn something from each other. woohoo! (I had that copied from another site and wanted to use it somewhere.

[Essan]

Picti (Painted Ones) is simply a generic name applied by the Romans to all the tribes that lived in the northern part of Albion (Britain). Just as Scoti (Pirates) began a generic name for those living in Eiru (Ireland).

Therefore, it is quite probable that some Picts were Celtic peoples closely related to the rest of the Celtic peoples of Albion who became Romanised, whilst others were possibly descended from earlier, pre-celtic, inhabitants.

[Minimalist]

What have I done?

[Frank Harrist]

What have I done?

You have unleashed the incredible bouncing smiley boob flasher.

[Minimalist]

What have I done?

You have unleashed the incredible bouncing smiley boob flasher.

Could be worse, I guess.

[MichelleH]

Now can we get back to the topic?

[Minimalist]

Timely.

[Frank Harrist]

Sorry....er....what were we talking about? Oh yeah Picts. Weren't they allergic to iron or something? I read a fictional work by Parke Godwin called "The Last Rainbow" with St. (later) Patrick and his first contacts with the picts. Good book, but very fanciful so I really don't know much about the Picts. In the book the touch of iron burned their skin. ....or was it steel? Se that's why i make jokes. i don't know nothin' about Picts.


So STFU Frank! (right?)

[marduk]

Sorry....er....what were we talking about

http://www.jcrows.com/europesoldestcivilization.html

[Guest]

Now I'm wondering which of you is right. Why don't ya'll post your best evidence so I can decide who to believe.

Ok, here goes....

"By the end of the Third century (AD297) we are introduced to the Picts (Picti) for the first time by Euminius, who associated them with Irish raiders (Hiberni) as enemies of the Britanni, and it is clear from a reference in 310 to 'the woods and marches of the Caledones and other Picts' that the Caledonians were considered Pictish" P43.
AP Smyth Warlords & Holy Men; Scotland AD 80-1000 (Edinburgh. Edinburgh University Press.2003) ISBN 0748601007


"The Picts seem to have been an amalgum of earlier tribes-as many as 12 were recorded by Ptolemy (an Alexandrian geographer) in the Second century...
We also do not know the name the Picts might have used for themselves (if indeed they recognised the concept!). But we can be confident that they were simply the descendants of the native Iron Age tribes of Scotland, most of whom were never part of the Roman Empire, and even when they were, were only affected for short periods of time. The notion of the Picts having existed in Galloway is now recognised as a myth which arose out of a misunderstanding by mediaeval scholars.
Therefore in historical terms, the term "Pictish" might be applied to the period between 79AD...and 842/900AD when the mac Ailpin dynasty came to establish itself. In practical terms, the Picts (and indeed Dal Riati ) only become truly recognisable as archaeological and historical entities from the Sixth century" pp11-13
SM Foster Picts, Gaels & Scots (London.(BT Batsford Ltd.2003) ISBN 0713474866

"The Picts have sometimes been seen, like the Basques, as being one of the oldest and longest established of the peoples of Europe, with an origin in the period before the Indo-European migrations into western Europe in the early Iron Age. Such a view depended primarily upon the linguistic analysis of a handful of inscriptions dating from the 7th to the 9th centuries, some elements of which were thought to be non-Indo-European. However, this has recently been challenged, and all of the scanty linguistic evidence relating to Pictish can be interpreted in the light of its being a Celtic language of the 'P' as opposed to the 'Q' family (Welsh, Cornish & Breton as opposed to Irish & Scots Gaelic). Despite some origin legends of probably Irish origin, recorded by Bede, that would make the Picts post-Roman immigrants into Scotland, archaeological evidence supports the continuity of their presence on the Scottish mainland and in the Northern Isles from at least the Iron Age onwards" pp180-1
R. Collins Early Mediaeval Europe 300-1000 (Basingstoke. Palgrave.1999) ISBN 0333658286

"The Irish Attocotti and the Picts were probably Celtic peoples, although some linguists claim to be able to detect a pre-Indo-European element in the Pictish language" p263
B. Cunliffe The Ancient Celts (London. Penguin Books.1999) ISBN 0140254226

"Through patient analysis of personal and place-names and inscriptions, the scholar Katherine Forsyth has convincingly demonstrated that the Pictish language was thoroughly Celtic, and not a throwback or a surviving pocket of a pre-Indo-European world. Different from Irish but a first cousin to British, it was P-Celtic rather than a Q-Celtic and as such a very distant relative of what was developed into the Welsh language" pp288-289
A. Moffat Before Scotland; the story of Scotland before history
(London.Thames & Hudson Ltd.2005) ISBN 050005133X

So there you have it; there were NO Picts in Britain before the Celts.