pre clovis america

[marduk]

i read recently that they are claiming mtdna x was the blood group of Atlantis
anyone who wants to check will discover that mtdna x isn't as mysterious as they claim
i.e. it does not suddenly appear in all the ancient cultures of the world around 9500bce starting from the nearest coastline
the myth of Cayce also recently is not as impressive as they claim
not only did he fail to predict many things that an idiot would guess at he predicted lots of things that never came true
he was also paid for his readings which is another big lie that they like to spread around along with the idea that he didn't get all his mystical ideas from the theosophist movement
he was actually working in bookstores from 1893 to 1908 when the popular books of Ignatius Donnelly, Helena Blavatsky, Gerald Massey,
Rudolf Steiner and Piazzi Smythe were widely available

yet they claim he didn't know they existed
the more you look into the A.R.E. the more you notice the funny smell
Greg Little recently has been trying to prove that the Bimini road is part of Atlantis
to this end they actually hired Andrew Collins as an expert on mediteranean harbours
ever read any Andrew Collins books ?
Ashes of Angels was probably the biggest pile of crap i've ever read
i once had the oportunity to hear Andrew speak at a conference and he rambles on and on. He was talking about his new book the cygnus mystery. the only mystery imo is that he still has a publishing contract
maybe with the exception of Genesis unveiled by Ian Lawton
that one was truly awful
lots of 100% irrefutable material channeled from spirits kind of thing

[Beagle]

anyone who wants to check will discover that mtdna x isn't as mysterious as they claim

None of the mDNA lines are mysterious.

[marduk]

i know

[Frank Harrist]

I was actually looking for a site which compares solutrean and clovis side by side with pics. I think clovis is more advanced than solutrean, but I wanted to have links to back it up, since people seem to demand that. The point from Cactus Hill is an intermediate form between the two. It all makes sense to me except for the 5k difference in dates for the two technologies. 5k years is a long damn time even to walk across the atlantic. It's also a long time for there to be such a small advance in tool making IMO. The theory still has those problems to overcome and probably a few others, but they are still working on it. Could be all BS or it might just pan out. There are many sites that are pre-clovis which haven't gotten any media attention. I seem to run across accounts of more every few days. Cognito's in particular comes to mind. the points there are definitely pre-clovis, but also pre-solutrean it would seem, which presents a whole new set of problems.

[Minimalist]

Solutrean Points:




Clovis Points:





If you put each term into Google Images it will bring up a selection.

[Cognito]

Marduk wrote:

i read recently that they are claiming mtdna x was the blood group of Atlantis
anyone who wants to check will discover that mtdna x isn't as mysterious as they claim
i.e. it does not suddenly appear in all the ancient cultures of the world around 9500bce starting from the nearest coastline
the myth of Cayce also recently is not as impressive as they claim

I am always amazed that the people who spout this crap do so with a straight face. If you dig a little, you'll find that 3% of the North American natives have mtDNA haplogroup X while none of the South Americans have it ... hmmm. And they came from Atlantis? Looks more like they originated in Eurasia to me.

[Cognito]

Frank wrote:

There are many sites that are pre-clovis which haven't gotten any media attention. I seem to run across accounts of more every few days. Cognito's in particular comes to mind. the points there are definitely pre-clovis, but also pre-solutrean it would seem, which presents a whole new set of problems.

The site that I visit is dated by a reputable archaeologist to 18-20,000bp. But that's not too hard to do since the lake that it sits on drained catastrophically at 18,000bp (imagine, an orthodox event). The tools are very unsophisticated and I suspect that the tool-makers were there for at least 10,000 years or more, before moving on to obscurity. I read through a BLM survey that will back up that statement so I'll need to get my hands on it before Maduk kicks my ass for speculating ... again. (Marduk will admit that dealing with me gives him insomnia)

[Beagle]

I agree Cognito. For a visual reference, I posted an article about distribution of blood types a little earlier here. It confirms what you're saying.

[Cognito]

Beagle wrote:

For a visual reference, I posted an article about distribution of blood types a little earlier here.

Yes, Beagle. That was a nice image that makes it obvious where the Ojibways originated. The other tribes listed with high incidences of mtDNA haplogroup X also entered through the Northwest corridor ... I cannot remember more than the Yakima and Navajo, but as I recall the other one or two are located in the Pacific Northwest.

No Atlantis needed, and certainly no Xylanthians with flying saucers are required to explain this one. However, good luck trying to inflence the Cayce Foundation.

[Beagle]

I appreciate what you're saying Cognito. Being new on this board, you may not know that I am not steeped in orthodoxy.

The Atlantis story however is not anything that I find worth taking seriously. But I certainly don't begrudge anybody that may feel differently to do so.

Many theories revolve around the end of the Ice Age. The Younger Dryas "only" lasted about a thousand years I think. That would be a thousand years shy of Platos' story. But indeed, it would be a time of great flooding. I say this without checking. If I'm wrong...sorry.

[marduk]

12,900BP Start of Younger Dryas Cold period

11,600BP End of Younger Dryas

(Marduk will admit that dealing with me gives him insomnia)

Dealing with Cognito gives me insomnia
frequently

[Beagle]

Nobody gives me insomnia. I'm about ready to prove it.

[john]

try building one

Not a great argument, John. Doubtless there are plenty of people today who could fashion a proper spear point, given the inclination to do so. I've knapped worn flints for my muskets when I've had to in order to get a usable edge. How many of those neolithic flint knappers could go to Comp USA, buy a computer and put it together?

We are the inheritors or a long technological learning curve and the fact that some items have been deemed obsolete does not mean that we lack the ability to go back and recreate them if need be...or even if the mood merely strikes.

Plenty of people dress up in chain mail armor and metal helmets and beat each other over the head with pikes for the 'fun' of it. That means that somewhere in the world, someone is still making chain mail.

minimalist -

been to plenty of SCA (society for creative anachronism) events in my life and frankly its like marie antoinette being a milkmaid. its social/commercial; not survival. Or a culture.

as to your point about ancient civ. putting computers together, it is moot, because computers didn't exist at that time.

my ultimate point is this; as a culture, we no longer have the hand skills to create the tools for our life. we buy them. if the manufacturing source dries up we're shit out of luck.

what would you do if, tomorrow, there were no grocery stores and you had to start out from day one providing food for you and your family?

john

[Minimalist]

Probably lose some weight which wouldn't be the worst thing, but it is an acquired skill. BTW, I still have the muskets and plenty of flint, powder and shot.

[john]

Probably lose some weight which wouldn't be the worst thing, but it is an acquired skill. BTW, I still have the muskets and plenty of flint, powder and shot.

well i'm maybe culturally earlier than you because i still have my bows & arrows, know how to flake points and to spin milkweed fiber on my thigh to create bowstrings, knowledge of wild plants, etc. but my primary point remains. if it all went to shit tomorrow morning, in terms of the industrial civ. chain of supply, we all of us would be facing some pretty grim choices. and we would not have the depth of knowledge to be successful in our new lives.

muskets, flints, powder and shot are all manufactured items. you purchased them, yes?

john