Caral, Peru

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:18 pm

When the Romans built a colonial city from scratch they tended to follow the same plan over and over. One that they had perfected over centuries of building.

Perhaps the survivors of the ice age meltdown in the Pacific fled to Peru and began building their same pattern city again as well?

Starflower · Post by **Starflower** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:19 pm

Minimalist wrote:Perhaps on the continental shelf?

Well, why not? Couldn't the original cities(if there were any) have been engulfed in some catastrophe and the survivors decided not to build on the coastline ever again. So they build in the mountains and have a peaceful loving civilization for a while. Then maybe later the aliens came and got them

I mean I'm all out of maybe's

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:26 pm

That is Hancock's theory, Star, almost exactly.

Starflower · Post by **Starflower** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:34 pm

Minimalist wrote:That is Hancock's theory, Star, almost exactly.

Darn. Do you think he'll sue me?

Seriously, except for the aliens

, I go along with the rest of it. If my place sank beneath the waves I'd run as far and high as I could go before rebuilding. Even nutcases have a valid idea(or part of one) every now and again

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:40 pm

I imagine he'll welcome you.

The only thing I differ with you on is that I don't quite have your faith in human nature.

I suspect the survivors would run until the water stopped rising, build their houses right on the coast and say "thank goodness THAT won't happen anymore."

stan · Post by **stan** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:04 pm

There are a bunch of other, smaller cities along the Supe River which, you could say, formed the "kingdom" of caral.

I think that subsequent excavations of these may provide clues to the origin of the design of Caral. Maybe this is a reach, since Caral is now thought to be the oldest, but there may be more "primitive" or transitional forms (less expensive, easier to build) in the smaller places.

It does seem that Caral was built from scratch,but while it was occupied, there were some additions and improvements.
AS to the appearance of city planning, how does one tell if buildings which appear to line up were all planned at the same time?

On the other hand, I am really struck by the uniqueness of the
conjunction of the low pyramid with the circular plaza which seems to have an architectural connection. Stunning.

i wonder...did the Eqyptians build any circular structures?

Starflower · Post by **Starflower** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:36 pm

And a new article on Caral,

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinat ... site_x.htm

"We're going to be able to learn about the social system, the economic and political organization, the ideology," Shady said of the excavations throughout the Supe Valley.

"It's very important because it's the oldest civilization in America. And for that reason, native peoples see it as a symbol that in America there had been the same capacity to create civilizations as ancient as in the Old World.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:59 pm

It's very important because it's the oldest civilization in America

nope its very important because it is the site that Dr Ruth Shady is in charge of
older dates have been assessed from Aspero

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:00 pm

I think the quotation in Starflower's post (USA Today Story) is out of date, maybe from about 2001, when Shady wrote a book and was quoted widely.
According to this newer article from 2005, she herself has been involved in dating some surrounding sites, and has found some of them to date to 3100 BC!

In the winter of 2004, Haas, Creamer, and Alvaro Ruiz, also of Northern Illinois University, published new carbon dates taken from 20 other large urban sites near Caral. Their results, reported in the journal Nature, pushed the record of urban occupation in the region back by another 500 years, to about 3100 BC.

Located in the neighboring Supe, Patavilca, and Fortaleza Valleys, all the sites have the circular plazas, mounds, and lack of ceramics that mark Caral and Aspero. All were constructed within a century of one another, and continuously inhabited for about 1,200 years.

The findings establish without a doubt that the people of the central coast of Peru, a region Haas and colleagues call the Norte Chico, had by far the most advanced civilization in the Americas at the time. In fact, the central coast of Peru was one of only six places in the world-including Mesopotamia, Egypt, China, India, and Mexico-where the first cities were built.

Caral turns out to be just one of the sites that blossomed during this time period. It documents the idea that this was a regional phenomenon, that a set of three interconnected valleys are part of this cultural phenomenon," Haas says. "If you looked at the 20 largest sites in the New World at that time, all 20 were in the Norte Chico."

Norte Chico has so many ancient inland cities that archeologists are wondering where all their seafood came from. Isotope analysis of mussel and clam shells from inland middens should pinpoint their precise coastal origins.

Additional studies of human skeletal remains from cemeteries around many of the cities should tell how much of their diet came from the land versus the waters of the Pacific. These findings should help settle the debate over whether this civilization truly owes its roots to
the sea.

http://www.calacademy.org/calwild/2005s ... izons.html

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:53 pm

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/living/15799273.htm

Mas.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:44 pm

The Aspero site yielded the earliest date of all Early horizon structures (Moseley and Willey 1973:465). Dating is available for the two largest platform mounds. The Huaca de los Idolos radiocarbon measurements span from 4900 ± 160 B.P. to 3970 ± 145 B.P.

http://www.jqjacobs.net/andes/coast.html

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:08 pm

We have earlier discussed the liklihood of an earlier prototypical city. Evidently there are quite a few along the Supe river valley and nearby.

Probably a lot of discovery to be made yet.

It seems that the sudden urge to become agrarian and build cities happened at the same time on a global scale.

stan · Post by **stan** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:11 pm

Thanks for that link, Marduk.
I am going to read it tomorrow.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:21 pm

I am going to read it tomorrow.

It's interesting Stan. There is quite a bit to the Caral story. We'll have to keep up with it.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:39 pm

It seems that the sudden urge to become agrarian and build cities happened at the same time on a global scale

I would say a strictly south american supe valley scale
it did happen quite a lot earlier in one area
there was a city at Eridu on (in those days) the coast of the persian gulf with a central temple and housing for at least 30,000 from around 5000bce
but apart from that your original surmisation would be correct
but there is probably a very good reason for that which doesn't involve either Aliens or God