it is common practice among archaeologists, at least the ones I've worked with, to only excavate a portion of each site and leave the rest for future technologies
this has been done for some time now but it sparks the question: what information is being left buried and what answers are being missed?
i am one of those who feels that a complete excavation is the only way to get complete information and more answers. leaving items and texts buried can possibly lead many to form wrong or isleading conclusions.
I long ago suggested selling off surplus to fund other archaeological projects. I was shouted down by some and others thought it was a good idea. My opinion is that if artifacts with documentation are readily available at reasonable prices the incidents of looting would decrease
though i can agree with the selling of some artifacts, i don't agree that looting would decrease that much. it might hurt their profit margin which inturn may lead to more looting to make up the shortfall but that is a wait and see situation.
Yes, arch, but excavation destroys evidence and future technologies will be better able to find the evidence without as much destruction. Much can be missed by using todays methods as opposed to less invasive, less destructive methods. As long as it's still buried it ain't going anywhere. They don't leave a site partially excavated with no intentions of ever returning. Funding also has a little to do with it and also the length of the digging season sometimes.
As for the looting, I doubt it would increase if it were less profitable. The money made would be great for the field of archaeology. Lets face it, looting is gonna happen anyway. At least articles which are sold by museums and other curation facilities will be documented. That will also make them more valuable to collectors.
it is common practice among archaeologists, at least the ones I've worked with, to only excavate a portion of each site and leave the rest for future technologies
this has been done for some time now but it sparks the question: what information is being left buried and what answers are being missed?
i am one of those who feels that a complete excavation is the only way to get complete information and more answers. leaving items and texts buried can possibly lead many to form wrong or isleading conclusions.
I long ago suggested selling off surplus to fund other archaeological projects. I was shouted down by some and others thought it was a good idea. My opinion is that if artifacts with documentation are readily available at reasonable prices the incidents of looting would decrease
though i can agree with the selling of some artifacts, i don't agree that looting would decrease that much. it might hurt their profit margin which inturn may lead to more looting to make up the shortfall but that is a wait and see situation.
Yes, arch, but excavation destroys evidence and future technologies will be better able to find the evidence without as much destruction. Much can be missed by using todays methods as opposed to less invasive, less destructive methods. As long as it's still buried it ain't going anywhere. They don't leave a site partially excavated with no intentions of ever returning. Funding also has a little to do with it and also the length of the digging season sometimes.
As for the looting, I doubt it would increase if it were less profitable. The money made would be great for the field of archaeology. Lets face it, looting is gonna happen anyway. At least articles which are sold by museums and other curation facilities will be documented. That will also make them more valuable to collectors.
The two most recent Great Frauds (the Jehoash stone and the James Ossuary) both originated from so-called "collectors."
Since they filled a need for the faithful it is safe to say that some still believe they are real.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
The two most recent Great Frauds (the Jehoash stone and the James Ossuary) both originated from so-called "collectors
herschal shanks will disagree with you on the james ossuary...he even produced a video/dvd on the topic.
At least articles which are sold by museums and other curation facilities will be documented. That will also make them more valuable to collectors
i can agree with that part but maybe the looters would just sell to the museums and still get a good price.
it is not that i support looting i just don't see the problem being solved anytime soon and without drastic measures. can anyone remember richard leaky and his actions when he was game warden in kenya?
The authorities presented their conclusions. They announced that the stone tablet, and the James Ossuary, were elaborate fakes.
But who was producing these fakes and how? Dr Goren decided to piece together how the stone tablet had been made. He tracked the origin of the stone itself - apparently a building block taken from a Crusader castle. It was even possible to work out how the fake patina had been manufactured and the ingredients used. What was clear was the team of forgers included experts in a range of disciplines.
More fakes suspected
When the police took Oded Golan into custody and searched his apartment they discovered a workshop with a range of tools, materials, and half finished 'antiquities'. This was evidence for an operation of a scale far greater than they had suspected.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
archaeologist wrote:i know the story. i didn't say i agreed with shanks. here is a good question for frank to answer:
would the sale of real, documented artifacts by museums put an end to the forgery trade?
Probably not, and it won't stop looting either, but it may put a small dent in it and the main point is the funds which would be raised. I invision an auction every year or every few years when the facility needs to make room and raise funds. The effect on looting and forgery would really only be a side effect. the main thing is the money which would come in and the liquidation of duplicate artifacts to make more room.
Frank Harrist wrote:[Yes, arch, but excavation destroys evidence and future technologies will be better able to find the evidence without as much destruction.
Which begs the question "evidence of what?". That aside, there are sites that are iron rich that may not be there in some distant day to be explored.
"The history of science is the record of dead religions"
Wilde
archaeologist wrote:i know the story. i didn't say i agreed with shanks. here is a good question for frank to answer:
would the sale of real, documented artifacts by museums put an end to the forgery trade?
Some, but not completely. The Met and Getty, for example, are not very interested in pieces of pottery, they are looking for objects that get headlines.
I think that an enlightened approach by governments (like Turkey and Greece and Italy) on a par with what the Brits do would severely reduce the problem.
The point is that the approaches that governments take are meant to halt the trade in important things but due to the nature of governments, they catch everything in their net.
"The history of science is the record of dead religions"
Wilde
Frank Harrist wrote:[Yes, arch, but excavation destroys evidence and future technologies will be better able to find the evidence without as much destruction.
Which begs the question "evidence of what?". That aside, there are sites that are iron rich that may not be there in some distant day to be explored.
The evidence would be different for every dig site. As you suggest some acidic soils do not preserve organics at all. In most cases, however, the organics are already gone and waiting a few more years will not make much difference. It has to be taken on a case by case basis. If in your excavation you see evidence that things will not be preserved for future generations to investigate, then you excavate the entire site. Seldom is an entire site excavated even in a case such as this as time and financial contraints prohibit it. Only in "salvage" archaeology is everything removed as thoroughly as possible, because otherwise it would surely be destroyed by development, erosion, looting, or some other factor. In my area the soils are very acidic and it is rare to find organic materials. This doesn't mean we can't find traces of where organics have been. Stains are usually our only indication of an interment. We seldom find skeletons.
Evidence can be something as spectacular as a skeleton or pottery or projectile points, or as mundane as a post hole mold or a pit feature. It can be evidence of habitaion or of industry or agriculture or whatever the site dictates. That's why I say it is different for every site.
Sorta thought this was put really and truely to bed.
It follows from this that a paleographer should not decide the matter on the basis of geology and a geologist should not decide the matter on the basis of paleography. But it appears that that is precisely what has happened in the recent cases in Israel.
The most egregious example is that of my good friend Ronny Reich in connection with the James ossuary inscription. He is one of the most distinguished and experienced archaeologists in Israel. He has studied innumerable inscriptions. He is prepared to comment on the archaeological, the historical, the linguistic, the paleographical aspects of the matter. But he is not qualified to comment on the geological aspects of the matter. However, that is exactly what he did.
One would think that finding the workshop where the forgeries were made would be pretty convincing evidence but I guess some people simply can't bear to let it die.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
One would think that finding the workshop where the forgeries were made would be pretty convincing evidence but I guess some people simply can't bear to let it die.
that may be a good case for accusing someone of desparation. though i see his point, it is weak and sounds like a baby crying whenit doesn't get its way.
That's a nice idea Stan ,it would be nice if schoolkids could marvel at artefacts from our human heritage ,touch them ,examin them and aquire a taste for history and archaeology .Same could be done with fossils ,they too could be used to create and enhance their curiosity .
I prefer this kind of solution to just selling the stuff to the highest bidder .