dr. schoch and his contribution to archaeology

[Guest]

Nice rebuttal, Harte.

[DougWeller]

I don't recall seeing any reliefs which depict landscapes.

Ancient Egypt sprang rapidly after the Deluge.

Funny, we can trace its development and there doesn't seem to be a Deluge in the way.

[DougWeller]

And why do you think the Old Kingdom demised?

So the snowfall to form the Ice Age icepacks ended supposedly circa 10000 B.C, but the rainfall in the middle latitudes ended circa 2000 B.C.? What a novel concept.

The long reign of Pepi II was almost certainly a crucial factor, plus the climate change around 2200 bce, not 2000.

[Minimalist]

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html


They just don't look as if they dress for the rain.

[Guest]

don't see any reason at all to consider the Ipuwer Papyrus as any sort of an historical record in any way

why not? where would he get the idea of such travesties if he had not experienced them at some time?

right now, as far as i am concerned, until some definitive proof comes along,i will put it in the category of supporting the Biblical record.

but again harte, they are assuming that history has been one long, linear continuity with no devastation that would interrupt civilization. it can be agreed upon that the sahara desert was a vast lush land of vegetation and rainfall at one time, but what is their's and your explanation for the sudden and complete change?

[marduk]

and what evidence do you have that supports the building of the city of On (Heliopolis) as claimed in Exodus (unabridged non KJV version)

[DougWeller]

Any historian or archaeologist knows that our past is full of discontinuities. Political, economic, environmental, you name it. Volcanoes, ice ages, droughts, plagues, earthquakes, famine, war -- manmade and natural catastrophes.

[Minimalist]

why not? where would he get the idea of such travesties if he had not experienced them at some time?

Yep. Every novel ever written has been based on personal experience, right? I guess that includes Alien and The Da Vinci Code?

Sometimes, Arch, in your zeal to find justification for your Fairy Tales, you say the most amazing things.

[Guest]

Sometimes, Arch, in your zeal to find justification for your Fairy Tales, you say the most amazing things.

until you come up with conclusive proof of the contrary, that is where i will put it. it is not desparation but keeping an open mind. the subjective dating method is not conclusive proof either.

[Minimalist]

You do not want proof.


You want vindication for fairy tales.


You are at the wrong forum for such a hope.

[Minimalist]

While searching for something else I came across this chart dealing with ancient flood events.

Considering some of the discussion in this thread, it seems appropriate.

Take a look at the dates for the Nile.




Really heavy wet period beginning around 5,400 BC.

[DougWeller]

If you are right, then there was a much longer wet period, or rather 2 wet periods, starting around 2800 bce.

[Minimalist]

Thanks for reminding me, Doug. I was playing with Arch on another thread and forgot to post the link to the chart on this thread. Poor message board ettiquette on my part.

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/meeting/Drght/ ... 20-MARS%22

As is always the case with Egypt one must keep in mind that the headwaters of the White and Blue Nile are very far away in the highlands of Ethiopia/Uganda and the flooding could merely be indicative of increased rainfall there and not in Luxor.

Still, I thought the timeline was interesting.

[DougWeller]

Yes, your point about the Nile's headwaters is why I said 'if this is right' or whatever I wrote.

referring to the same author: http://tinyurl.com/newg2
Figure 18. Paleoflooding in the Southwest United States
Source: Katie Hirschboeck, Laboratory of Tree-Ring Research, The University of Arizona

Highlights: A comparison of paleoflood evidence from several different parts of the world suggests that past flooding episodes (time periods with more frequent or larger paleofloods) tend to cluster temporally, but these flood clusters are not necessarily synchronous everywhere. In other words, past flood episodes have not always occurred at the same time globally, or even within the boundaries of the United States. Some regions, however, have experienced synchronous flooding over roughly the same time period, or parts of the same time period (e.g., Southern California, Southwestern United States). The comparison with the ancient Nile River flood record suggests a possible link between strong El Niño years and paleoflood clusters in the Southwest (see Notes).A comparison between the paleoflood record and the gauged flood record allows us to evaluate whether or not recent flooding during the last 50-100 years in the Southwest differs significantly from that of the past.

[Minimalist]

What's interesting is that here in Arizona we have just finished with the wettest 'monsoon' season since 1999...we got about 3 inches. However, most of that tends to come in t-storms which drop a heavy amount of rain in a short time and the run off effect can be spectacular. Every year some idiot tries to drive through one of the washes and gets drowned in the process. The ground gets baked so hard by the sun that water just runs to the lowest point and puddles.

Anyway, not too long ago I saw a special on the Valley of the Kings where it showed the effects of a rainstorm sending a cascade of water down the valley. Truly impressive and the archaeologist in question (it may have been Kent Weeks) was showing the evidence for earlier flood conditions.
So, in a desert environment any amount of rain cause flooding....although not, of course, to the tops of the mountains.