crossbows

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:01 pm

Yes, Ben did say that.

Of course, he neglects to mention that training longbowmen to that level of proficiency would have taken years. Baron Von Steuben worked wonders training musketeers in a couple of months and when the 'properly' trained colonials next met the British at Monmouth they beat them anyway.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:02 pm

You know, today's Sunda Shelf is named after that ancient land, ruins of which are now submerged off Nan Madol, Okinawa, Taiwan, and other locations in the western Pacific, sort of like the old Atlantean kingdom now submerged off Morocco, Spain, France, and England.

And like the kingdoms of Rama (northwest India) and Kumari Kandam (southern India), they had the sophistication of what you'd expect from people who lived circa 2000 B.C, and the Vedas bear this out, as well as the many legends about the other Ice Age civilizations.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:19 pm

The bulk of the Sunda Shelf was submerged relatively rapidly between 14,000 and 11,000 years ago

famous quote by one of your favourite authors pals Jim

its completely wrong of course but that didn't stop him writing it when he was claiming it as the site of Atlantis

gunny · Post by **gunny** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:21 pm

The revolutions in battle occured in two steps---the Minie ball in the War of Yankee Invasion, and the machine gun in WWI. The tactics taught the troups was to be the same as used for hundreds of years--a mass of people charging a defensise position. It worked fine when the smootbore musket was not accurate beyond 50 yards. Oh Oh the rifled muskets, with minie balls, could be loaded fast, and were accurate to 300 yards. Battles where 30-40,000 were killed was not unusual. No lessions were learned. The First Battle Of The Somme, in WWI, had British lines, walking in step, alighned perfectly, walking the half mile toward the German machine guns. 50,000 died. The German gunners cried because it was so stupid. The Iraq thing is approching this stupidity.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:26 pm

the War of Yankee Invasion

Right....Texas!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:27 pm

Marduk, of which of my gleanees of information in the world of authorship are you speaking?

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:17 pm

Dr. Sunil Prasannan
http://www.grahamhancock.com/underworld ... lantis.php
though i don't think hes a gleanee
more likely a hindu

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:46 pm

Yes, they're trying to split the difference between the conventional timeframe for the end of the Ice Age at circa 10000 B.C. and the conventional timeframe that huge megalithic and brick structures began to be built circa 3000 B.C. by putting the 6,900 B.C. timeframe for when virtually the entire Sunda Peninsula, and the other great Ice Age civilizations, went under, as I discuss in my book.

Tech · Post by **Tech** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:18 pm

Back to the original topic................

Literary and physical evidence suggest that the crossbow originated in China during the 4th century BC, though a type of crossbow called the gastraphetes may have been independently invented in Greece at about the same period. It wasn't until the 10th or 11th centuries AD that the crossbow became a significant military weapon in Europe. It passed from general military service in the 16th century, but its use for hunting and target shooting has continued to the present day. The most of following chronology is abridged

341 BC Earliest reliable record of crossbow use at
battle of Ma-Ling in China.

228 BC Earliest crossbow artifact, a bronze lock
mechanism from the tomb of Yu Wang.

0-100 AD Heron of Alexandria describes gastraphetes.

300-700 Roman carvings of crossbows.

385 Vegetius mentions crossbows in DE RE
MILITARIA.

1066 Crossbows introduced to England by Normans.

1096 Anna Comnena describes Norman crossbows.

1100-1200 Composite crossbow lath appears.

1139 2nd Lateran Council interdict forbids use of
crossbow among Christians.

1192 Crusader victory at Jaffa aided by crossbows.

1314 Earliest reliable record of steel lath.

1346 Genoese crossbowmen defeated at Crecy by
English longbowmen.

1373 Earliest illustration of cranequin.

1503 First of many English laws restricting
possession and use of crossbows.

1550-1600 Firearms replace crossbows in most Weatern
armies.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:32 pm

you forgot 25 October 1415 the day that Crossbows became obsolete as a direct reslut of which the law forbidding the use of crossbows was passed in 1503 and for which special dispensation was passed on Gods holy day to allow people to practice this new art form
like
we English found something better for kids to practice with

anyway
i would like to take this oppotunity to pass this comment to the french posters here assembled
http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/CRT/CRT3 ... 0-15CP.jpg

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:45 pm

Just to throw in with Tech's great outline - "English Weapons and Warfare 449-1660" (Norman and Pottinger 1985) makes no mention of crossbows until the Norman invasion.

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:46 pm

marduk wrote:
King Arthurs time was just after the Romans left
no it wasn't

christ sometimes you colonials crack me up
i suppose you think we eat cucumber sandwiches, drink nothing but tea and watch cricket on sundays as well

When do you put Arthur's time Marduk? I've always pegged it at just after the Roman withdrawal. And I'm a Brit too!

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:46 pm

They even have a crossbow smilie.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:50 am

When do you put Arthur's time Marduk? I've always pegged it at just after the Roman withdrawal. And I'm a Brit too

Its a pastiche
there never was anyone called Arthur
its the remnant of our own british folklore left from a mixture of the picts, celts, scots and gaels
like heres a B-I-I-I-G clue as to how old parts of it are
how do you get a sword out of a stone
and what kind of stone does it have to be
all this later stuff was just later additions to the story such as men in suits of Armour and riding horses with lances at each other
like the boat of the middle eastern flood hero starting off as made from reeds with a basket of chickens and some fresh dates on board and ending up as a plank built ark with two of every animal
Tolkien understood this, he referred to such a collection of stories as a legendarium
3000 years from now people will be saying "Arthur yes definitely late 20th century royal marine corps serving in the middle east"
Sgt Arthur Briton and L/Cpl lot stationed at camp Guinevere , they had a Camel lot.

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:27 am

LOL - yes, the Morte d'Arthur et al versions are pretty flowery, but he is mentioned in the Easter annals as being a Dux Belorum, not a king but an influential war leader.