OOPArts

[Guest]

Yeh Essan, if humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years (as the Darwinites claim), then it's hard to believe that they didn't get to the Americas through almost all of that time, I guess they were too monkey-like (or is it shrew-like?) way back supposedly then.

[Beagle]

Beagle, why would 40,000 ya be an anomalous date according to the mainstream chronology of human history? If human history really goes back many hudreds of thousands of years, then why couldn't they have migrated to the "New World" hundreds of thousands of years before 40,000 ya?

There were humans in Australia at least 60,000 years ago. IMO there is no conceivable reason why they could not have reached the AMericas by 40,000 years ago. Albeit maybe in only small numbers so that little trace of theuir presence has been discovered.

Subsequent small migrations continued through the ice age (probably during the warmer interstadial periods) ending with a larger migration around 10-15,000 years ago.

Such a scenario would IMO explain most of the enigmas regarding early human presence in the Americas.

I tend to agree with that Essan. Evidence of their presence however is so scarce that it has been viewed as anomalous and hasn't been pursued scientifically.

The exception seems to be that scientists are returning to the Valsequillo valley.

[Beagle]

http://www.superiorheartland.com/3/Sample01.pdf

From The Daily Grail - this is a story that has been around a long time, but the mystery remains.

It's about the "missing" copper in Michigan, which was evidently mined in antiquity and cannot be accounted for.

[Guest]

That copper from the Lake Superior region was taken by the Phoenicians after 1500 B.C., when the Ice Age icepack had dissipated to expose that land with its rich veins of ore.

They sailed all the way up the Mississippi to the copper district, and left the name Tyre in the region with Lake Tyranea, where a pyramid is found at the bottom of the lake in northern Wisconsin. The "Native Americans" there say a previous unknown people did the mining, and those blue eyes of the Mandan and Fox tribes came from somewhere.

[Essan]

You're not the only one to have theorised that GV

Other's claim it was the Atlanteans..... Or maybe it was the British?

http://www.philipcoppens.com/copper.html

It's not something I've ever looked into enough to have any firm opinion on.

[Guest]

Essan, some of the British were of Avalon (Atland, Attalan), and the Phoenicians (Sidonians) were of that great east Atlantic maritime power too (Medina Sidona, Posidon) so you're guesses are pretty good.

Now, do you think Solon was correct that Egypt went back to 10000 B.C. (supposedly when Atlantis went under), or do you think Manetho was closer, pegging it to circa 2500 B.C., and so Atlantis went under after that date?

[marduk]

where a pyramid is found at the bottom of the lake in northern Wisconsin

oooh i'd love to see the evidence for this got a link Jim ?
last time i spoke to the guy leading the excavation he told me that it was a triangular shaped building and was quite close to the edge
you know the local indians still have a love affair with triangles to this day
and they still have a lot of copper

[Guest]

Link Marduk? You said you don't trust the internet.

[marduk]

so you don't have any evidence that there is a pyramid then
or that even the phoenecians ever built any pyramids
thats what I thought

[Guest]

You have my book, I thought you said you read it?

[Harte]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OOPArt
http://www.ooparts.nl/
http://paranormal.about.com/library/wee ... 11402a.htm
http://www.rae.org/contents_tud.html

{I hope i did the URL's right, I'm brand new at this }

Granny,

Most of these ooparts I've investigated to some degree or the other.
For most of the rest of them there is nothing but the written word to investigate.

But as an overview:

The Coso artifact actually is a spark plug from the twenties which became enclosed (encrusted) by what's called a "concretion." Not unusual at all, such formations form in a very very short time (thus the "concretion" name.) It's sometimes said it was found in a geode, but nothing could be further from the truth.

The Ica stones were exposed as fraudulent (the oopart ones w/dinosaurs, anyway) on the BBC program Horizons, several years ago.

The Acambaro figures have not been dated. Claims have been made, but none shown to be true for their dates. These figurines are privately owned and the current owner refuses to allow them to be analysed.

All but one of the so-called crystal skulls have been shown to be of modern (1800's) origin due to the polishing patterns found on their surfaces. The single exception, though beautiful and amazing, could have been carved out in a time span of a couple of years by natives in S. America, though a craftsman would certainly have to be dedicated to do it in that time frame.

The Dropa (or Dzopa) Stones are an admitted hoax.

The Baghdad Battery and the Antikythera mechanism are real objects discovered (or verified) by archaeologists. The actual use of the battery is unknown, which means that although it could have been a battery, it could also not have been. It's output wouldn't have been enough to accomplish much beyond something like electroplating, though, and even that would require days at the voltage available. On the other hand, in an age that knew nothing of electroplating, imagine how easy it would have been for some dishonest person to plate gold on some heavy metal and pass it off as pure and you can see that it's just not exactly beyond all comprehension that it was used for this very purpose. Such a use could have been easily discovered by accident however. Have a look at "wet cell corrosion" to see how this might have happened. One need only to observe the slow motion reaction between dissimilar metals that are in contact and wet, like iron and copper laying out on the porch in the rain together, to be in a position to "discover" a battery.

The Antikythera mechanism is an exciting object about which very little is known and much is speculated. There is no doubt that it's gear mechanisms are more complex than were originally imagined for the Greeks, but it post-dates Archimedes and several other Greek geniuses, as well as many fairly astonishing but well known Greek inventions, so it's just not completely "out of place."

The "grooved spheres" are a naturally formed deposit that has occurred in other areas. Only a single one of these sphere has these grooves which most likely did not form naturally but were scratched into the surface after the sphere was unearthed. The "metallic" makeup is not nearly what it is claimed as to hardness, the mineral it is made of varies in hardness greatly. IOW, perfectly natural.

Almost all the "things found in coal" or whatnot have been either shown to be or admitted to be hoaxes. If you notice, almost every claim comes from the 19th century, a time when such things were being constantly written about or hoaxed/joked about (Paul Bunyan, Calaveras County jumping frogs, etc.) Anyone want to speculate why no such objects are found today, even though roughly a hundred times as much coal mining occurs in the present than did back then?

I'm not going to the second page of the link I went to. If you want to, you can ask me specifically about whichever ooparts you are particularly interested in and I'll post my answer here.

Suffioce it to say that these "ooparts" are, in the majority, not mysterious in any way and are absolutely not out of place at all, except in the minds of the "true believers."

Harte

[Harte]

That copper from the Lake Superior region was taken by the Phoenicians after 1500 B.C., when the Ice Age icepack had dissipated to expose that land with its rich veins of ore.

No they didn't. There was waaay more than enough copper right there around the Med. No need for such a ridiculously expensive method of getting it.

There's really no mystery at all about what happened to this copper - it's mostly still there. Some idiot several long years ago made some stupid claim about how tons of it had been mined there but the claim was just that - a claim. There's no reason at all to believe anything more than just a small quantity was ever taken from the Michigan site by anyone. Here's a reference from an actual archaeologist that actually works in Michigan and actually is (or was) involved at the actual site:

http://www.ramtops.co.uk/copper.html

Thank you Doug Weller

The "Native Americans" there say a previous unknown people did the mining...

No they don't.

Harte

[Guest]

Wrong Harte, they were going deep and dangerously in Spain for copper, so the easy pickings in the Superior region were superior. The extensive ancient mines and slag pits in the region are well documented, do you really think the Phoencians weren't navigating the oceans, rather naive of you.

[Harte]

[Guest]

Is that true of monkeys also, or tree shrews?