i have searched exhaustively for the name of this feature
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 068836&t=k
http://216.109.132.28/test.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/test1.jpg
it is called romer schanze [roman earthworks] on this map
http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/imag ... sadany.jpg
ideas? anyone? its not attilas stan of priscus? is it?
attila's lost capital?
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
-
Frank Harrist
features
Could they be neolithic henges?
I could view the 3rd and 4th links only.
Do you have any shots from the ground...
How big are they?
Are there two circles inside a big one?
I could view the 3rd and 4th links only.
Do you have any shots from the ground...
How big are they?
Are there two circles inside a big one?
The deeper you go, the higher you fly.
earthworks
Have you tried contacting anyone in Zsadany or a nearby university?
The deeper you go, the higher you fly.
answers
get ye some google earth...
http://earth.google.com/downloads.html
there are 4 complete circuits of walls... over 5000acres! enclosed
for a total dimension 3.5 miles long x 2.5 miles wide
the 2 inner most walls are 300feet in cross section!
comparatively, its bigger than the walled city of rome or constantinople @300ad
if it was roman, i think it would be recorded. infact, its not on the cultural memory sites of romania nor hungary
i have no pics because when i was there in 1990, it didn't mean that much to me because i had no idea of the size
why i think its attila... it would seem to be unlikely i know but
priscus==========================
http://www29.homepage.villanova.edu/chr ... mbassy.htm
P.fr .9 Having crossed rivers mighty indeed—namely the Tisia, Tibisia, and Dricca—we came to the place where long ago Vidigoia, the bravest of the Goths, perished by the treachery of the Sarmatians. (This man, also called Vidicula and Indigoia, was one of the subjects of early Gothic lays, and judging by the mention of the Sarmatian-Gothic war he probably died in 331-32 or 334, when the two tribes were fighting during Constantine's reign. The term Sarmatians here indicates a Teutonic people who later included the Vandals, dwelling to the north of the Goths and usually allied to Rome.) Not far from there we reached the village where king Attila was staying, a village, I say, like a very large city, in which we found wooden walls made with smooth planks, their jointure imitating solidity to such an extent that the union of the boards could scarcely be seen by close scrutiny. You might see there dining rooms extended to a liberal circumference and porticoes laid out in all splendor. The area of the courtyard was bounded by a huge circuit wall so that its very size might show it to be the royal palace. This was the house of Attila, the king who held the whole barbarian world, and he preferred this dwelling to the cities captured by him.
from DEATH OF BUDA A Hun Legend ========================
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/human ... epics1.htm
As from the distance one approaches a hive of bees,
he sees a few insects flitting here and there - a
thickening swarm, a darting dance, and then a buzz
and zoom.
The hive booms; in and out the door a thousand
shining bees are crawling back on back. So teem
the swarms of busy men as Attila's town looms up
ahead.
Buda's camp, I think, is nothing compared to these
crowds that come and go and these palaces of Attila
that stretch for miles into the fields, towering
into the heavens.
This is a great range where unbroken stallions run;
a vast field betwixt where warriors train; palace on
corral and palace on corral - it would be hard, indeed,
indeed, to count them all.
At the camp's outer edge stood the servants' tents
with poles of plain fir notched. Farther in, the
tents were finer, the joints fitted smoothly with
a plane.
The palaces of the chieftains are clustered here and
there - so many proud, so many royal homes. Town
within town passes into fields, with green stretches
of distance between.
Women dwell in their secluded towns and rule over
their courts. Krimhilda passes swiftly, if she desires,
over a hanging corridor to her lord Attila's tent.
All this is work of marvellous craft. The awl argues
dead trees into blossoms and new leaves, unlike before,
painted in oil and unfamiliar colors.
The leaves are blood-red, the blossoms gold; branches
twist into hissing dragons where green birds perch
silently, birdlike bells tinkling in their stead.
In the center on a high hill is Attila's tent, the
topmost point shaded by the ancient Turul, tremendous
wings spreading for a flight, and wrought of solid
gold by its maker.
The columns flow to the ceiling, coiling like tendrils
now this way now that, the wood plated with gleaming
gold, and velvet tapestries swelling between.
=========================================
i have contacted many many professionals [romanian & otherwise] with not 1 response in 6 months
the good folks of megalith.co.uk cannot identify it.
the town is now called cornesti [in timis county] there are others
you can also find the town called jadani or mezozsadany
there is a town in hungary http://www.zsadany.hu which claims his grave
there is more to see in google earth like a necropolis[?] in the next valley south
http://earth.google.com/downloads.html
there are 4 complete circuits of walls... over 5000acres! enclosed
for a total dimension 3.5 miles long x 2.5 miles wide
the 2 inner most walls are 300feet in cross section!
comparatively, its bigger than the walled city of rome or constantinople @300ad
if it was roman, i think it would be recorded. infact, its not on the cultural memory sites of romania nor hungary
i have no pics because when i was there in 1990, it didn't mean that much to me because i had no idea of the size
why i think its attila... it would seem to be unlikely i know but
priscus==========================
http://www29.homepage.villanova.edu/chr ... mbassy.htm
P.fr .9 Having crossed rivers mighty indeed—namely the Tisia, Tibisia, and Dricca—we came to the place where long ago Vidigoia, the bravest of the Goths, perished by the treachery of the Sarmatians. (This man, also called Vidicula and Indigoia, was one of the subjects of early Gothic lays, and judging by the mention of the Sarmatian-Gothic war he probably died in 331-32 or 334, when the two tribes were fighting during Constantine's reign. The term Sarmatians here indicates a Teutonic people who later included the Vandals, dwelling to the north of the Goths and usually allied to Rome.) Not far from there we reached the village where king Attila was staying, a village, I say, like a very large city, in which we found wooden walls made with smooth planks, their jointure imitating solidity to such an extent that the union of the boards could scarcely be seen by close scrutiny. You might see there dining rooms extended to a liberal circumference and porticoes laid out in all splendor. The area of the courtyard was bounded by a huge circuit wall so that its very size might show it to be the royal palace. This was the house of Attila, the king who held the whole barbarian world, and he preferred this dwelling to the cities captured by him.
from DEATH OF BUDA A Hun Legend ========================
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/human ... epics1.htm
As from the distance one approaches a hive of bees,
he sees a few insects flitting here and there - a
thickening swarm, a darting dance, and then a buzz
and zoom.
The hive booms; in and out the door a thousand
shining bees are crawling back on back. So teem
the swarms of busy men as Attila's town looms up
ahead.
Buda's camp, I think, is nothing compared to these
crowds that come and go and these palaces of Attila
that stretch for miles into the fields, towering
into the heavens.
This is a great range where unbroken stallions run;
a vast field betwixt where warriors train; palace on
corral and palace on corral - it would be hard, indeed,
indeed, to count them all.
At the camp's outer edge stood the servants' tents
with poles of plain fir notched. Farther in, the
tents were finer, the joints fitted smoothly with
a plane.
The palaces of the chieftains are clustered here and
there - so many proud, so many royal homes. Town
within town passes into fields, with green stretches
of distance between.
Women dwell in their secluded towns and rule over
their courts. Krimhilda passes swiftly, if she desires,
over a hanging corridor to her lord Attila's tent.
All this is work of marvellous craft. The awl argues
dead trees into blossoms and new leaves, unlike before,
painted in oil and unfamiliar colors.
The leaves are blood-red, the blossoms gold; branches
twist into hissing dragons where green birds perch
silently, birdlike bells tinkling in their stead.
In the center on a high hill is Attila's tent, the
topmost point shaded by the ancient Turul, tremendous
wings spreading for a flight, and wrought of solid
gold by its maker.
The columns flow to the ceiling, coiling like tendrils
now this way now that, the wood plated with gleaming
gold, and velvet tapestries swelling between.
=========================================
i have contacted many many professionals [romanian & otherwise] with not 1 response in 6 months
the good folks of megalith.co.uk cannot identify it.
the town is now called cornesti [in timis county] there are others
you can also find the town called jadani or mezozsadany
there is a town in hungary http://www.zsadany.hu which claims his grave
there is more to see in google earth like a necropolis[?] in the next valley south
-
Rokcet Scientist
Re: attila's lost capital?
Interesting! Reminds me of a guy near Naples who found a Roman villa in his backyard using Google Earth...eratoh wrote:i have searched exhaustively for the name of this feature
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 068836&t=k
http://216.109.132.28/test.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/test1.jpg
it is called romer schanze [roman earthworks] on this map
http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/imag ... sadany.jpg
ideas? anyone? its not attilas stan of priscus? is it?
But let me hasten to add that I'm with Frank: from this perspective there doesn't seem to be any similarity with any other Roman layouts.
A 'Schanze' would be a fortification, like an army camp, surrounded by a dry ditch – or a flooded moat if the local geography allowed it. On top of the inside dyke would be a wooden palisade. Manned guard towers at more or less regular intervals. Two main gates, and if possible direct access to a navigable river.
Does any of this apply to your images?
Also, 3,45 miles diameter sounds like an awful big army camp. Maybe too big to be an army camp?
Is there anything to tie the locale in the images to the description of 'the village where king Attila was staying'?
BTW, that http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/imag ... sadany.jpg is too lo-res to be able to make out anything...
Re: attila's lost capital?
and my hat goes out to the kind german fellow who was able to read and translate that!BTW, that http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/imag ... sadany.jpg is too lo-res to be able to make out anything...
he also stated that cartographers at the time would have habitually called that roman simply because of the scale. it did not mean it was. he has several maps with romer schanze all over them.
depending on who you believe, attila could have had 500,000 riders at his camp. according to calcs done for maidencastle, there were 100people per acre so 5000acres=500,000 people.
if you look in google earth, you can see breaks in the walls and tower bases[?]
there seems to be a necropolis in the next valley south
-
Frank Harrist
google earth!
if you download google earth it has a tool for doing measurements click to click. it also has a neat 3d tilt feature so you can get some great viewsFrank Harrist wrote:I see many possible features inside the outer wall. On the lower end of the pic it appears there's a big gate or two guard towers. Not sure on the scale.
http://earth.google.com/downloads.html
i praise them too much but long live google!
-
Minimalist
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 16033
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
- Location: Arizona
therein lies the debate.Minimalist wrote:I thought Attila's principal encampment was near Budapest, Hungary?
bleda no doubt was over there and until his death, that would be the capital. attila had his city to the east of that, some might say 2 or 3 days ride east of the tisza.
from gibbon====
he was admitted to the royal presence; but, instead of obtaining a decisive answer, he was compelled to undertake a remote journey towards the North, that Attila might enjoy the proud satisfaction of receiving in the same camp the ambassadors of the Eastern and Western empires. His journey was regulated by the guides, who obliged him to halt, to hasten his march, or to deviate from the common road, as it best suited the convenience of the king. The Romans who traversed the plains of Hungary suppose that they passed several navigable rivers, either in canoes or portable boats; but there is reason to suspect that the winding stream of the Theiss, or Tibiscus, might present itself in different places under different names.
http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap34.htm
===================
i don't think they really knew where they were or it was
-
Minimalist
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 16033
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
- Location: Arizona
-
Rokcet Scientist
hun
eratoh, it looks like you are onto something!
Nobody in Romania seems to know anything about it!!
Why is that?
You say you visited the place in 1990....how did you know it was there?
Were you looking for it on those old maps?
And I take it that no one has ever excavated this place? Remarkable!
It's kind of like that Bosnian Pyramid....it was there, but no one paid any attention to it....
Maybe you could start a new discipline called virtual archaeology...using
Google earth...I regret very much not having access to it, as it is not avalable for my Mac OS9!!
So what are your plans??
Nobody in Romania seems to know anything about it!!
Why is that?
You say you visited the place in 1990....how did you know it was there?
Were you looking for it on those old maps?
And I take it that no one has ever excavated this place? Remarkable!
It's kind of like that Bosnian Pyramid....it was there, but no one paid any attention to it....
Maybe you could start a new discipline called virtual archaeology...using
Google earth...I regret very much not having access to it, as it is not avalable for my Mac OS9!!
So what are your plans??
The deeper you go, the higher you fly.
-
Minimalist
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 16033
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
- Location: Arizona