WALLACE'S LINE
Alfred Russel Wallace, the so-called father of animal geography, formulated his ideas on evolution by natural selection while observing and collecting wildlife in the islands of Southeast Asia. He was particularly impressed by the sudden difference in bird families he encountered when he sailed some twenty miles east of the island of Bali and landed on Lombok. On Bali the birds were clearly related to those of the larger islands of Java and Sumatra and mainland Malaysia. On Lombok the birds were clearly related to those of New Guinea and Australia. He marked the channel between Bali and Lombok as the divide between two great zoogeographic regions, the Oriental and Australian. In his honor this dividing line, which extends northward between Borneo and Sulawesi, is still referred to today as Wallace's Line. (See the map below.)
Ancient Sea Travel
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
http://www.radford.edu/~swoodwar/CLASSE ... lline.html
FROM THE ARTICLE BY BEDNARIK:
The islands of Nusa Tenggara, formerly known as the Lesser Sunda Islands, are separated from Sumatra, Java and Bali by the world's most important biogeographical filter, named after the British naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace. The Wallace Line, which runs between Bali and Lombok, indicates the furthest extent of typical Southeast Asian eutherian fauna (Wallace 1890), which had been able to colonise the islands west of the barrier during Pleistocene periods of low sea level. The Indonesian islands are geologically young, being the result of the recent collision of two continental plates. Formed along a subduction zone, they are still rising from the sea. Those east of Bali have never been joined to any mainland, and most have not been connected to other islands in the past. Apart from a very few exceptions they were never settled by any large mammalian species.
Proboscideans swam across many of the sea barriers, presumably in herd formation, and the remains of elephants, Stegodon and Stegolophodon have been found in Pleistocene deposits on many of the region's islands (Verhoeven 1958, 1964, 1968; Maringer & Verhoeven 1970; Hooijer 1957, 1972; Glover 1969; Groves 1976; Simpson 1977; de Vos & Sondaar 1982; Allen 1991; Hantoro 1996; cf. Koenigswald 1949). They form the most conspicuous component of the strictly endemic fossil faunas, occurring both as full-size and dwarf species. Elephants are superb long-distance swimmers that have colonised dozens of islands around the world (Johnson 1980: 384).
Humans also settled the islands of Nusa Tenggara, not by swimming but after they had developed maritime navigation capability. By about 800 ka (800,000 years) ago, hominids had established a substantial population on Flores, which suggests that they had earlier settled Lombok and Sumbawa, the two major islands between Bali and Flores. The Soa Basin in central Flores, north of Boawae, consists of a series of mostly volcanic facies, transected by numerous deep drainage valleys documenting the uniformity of the geological sections (Ehrat 1925; Hartono 1961).
http://www.gsajournals.org/gsaonline/?r ... 2.0.CO%3B2
The issue is still under debate.
The issue is still under debate.
The timing of arrival of early hominids in Southeast Asia has major implications for models of hominid evolution. The majority of evidence for the earliest appearance of hominids in the region has previously come from Java in western Indonesia. Much of this evidence remains controversial owing to a poor understanding of the stratigraphic and chronologic relationships of the depositional units from which the material was derived. Before artifacts may be placed into their proper archaeological context, the geologic history of archaeological sites must be thoroughly understood, and deposits containing artifacts must be properly dated. An extensive investigation has been undertaken on the island of Flores, in eastern Indonesia, to determine the depositional and chronological history of stratigraphic units within the Soa basin; many of the units are associated with stone artifacts attributed to Homo erectus. Zircon fission-track dates of tuffaceous deposits within this lacustrine basin now provide the most reliable data concerning the true time of arrival of Homo erectus into Southeast Asia and indicate that these early hominids must have successfully begun colonizing eastern Indonesia by ca. 840 ka.
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20031018/bob8.asp
Week of Oct. 18, 2003; Vol. 164, No. 16 , p. 248
Erectus Ahoy
Prehistoric seafaring floats into view
Bruce Bower
As the sun edged above the horizon on Jan. 31, 2000, a dozen men boarded a bamboo raft off the east coast of the Indonesian island of Bali. Each gripped a wooden paddle and, in unison, deftly stroked the nearly 40-foot-long craft into the open sea. Their destination: the Stone Age, by way of a roughly 18-mile crossing to the neighboring island of Lombok. Project director Robert G. Bednarik, one of the assembled paddlers, knew that a challenging trip lay ahead, even discounting any time travel. Local fishing crews had told him of the Lombok Strait's fiendishly shifting currents, vicious whirlpools, and unexpected waves far from shore. No matter—Bednarik knew of no other way to demonstrate that Homo erectus, humanity's evolutionary precursor and perhaps a direct ancestor of Homo sapiens, was the world's first seafarer.
SEA FARE. During a crossing of the Timor Sea to Australia on a bamboo raft, a crew member cooks a tuna he has just harpooned.
Bednarik
Such a possibility falls far outside mainstream ideas about the origins of sea travel. Many researchers theorize that Southeast Asian H. sapiens built and navigated the first sea vessels between 60,000 and 40,000 years ago, ultimately piloting them to the open spaces of Australia. However, archaeologists have found precious few remains of prehistoric rafts and boats. The oldest such finds, including wooden canoes and paddles, come from northern Europe and date to at most 9,000 years ago.
Nonetheless, Bednarik says, it's apparent that H. erectus—which may have survived in Java until 30,000 years ago—launched the first age of ocean journeys between 900,000 and 800,000 years ago. On Flores, an island separated from Bali by ocean waters and the islands of Lombok and Sumbawa, other scientists have dated stone tools at more than 800,000 years old (SN: 3/14/98, p. 164). Although a land bridge connected Bali to mainland Asia at that time, it's unlikely such walkways existed between the other islands, in Bednarik's view.
If hardy teams of H. erectus reached Flores by sea, their mode of transportation remains unknown. Some scientists suspect that small numbers of Stone Age folk accidentally drifted as far as Flores after climbing onto thick mats of vegetation that sometimes form near the Southeast Asian coast.
That speculation doesn't float, contends Bednarik. Only a craft propelled by its occupants could negotiate the treacherous straits separating one Indonesian island from the next. To back up that claim, he launched a project in 1996 to determine what Stone Age groups would have had to do, at a minimum, to reach Flores and its neighboring islands. A lot of hard work, a handful of sea excursions, and a few close calls later, he and his comrades thrust their newest and most improved bamboo raft, dubbed Nale Tasih 4, into the Lombok Strait.
Nearly 12 hours later, after covering a distance of 30 miles, they completed their journey—just barely.
Through it all, Nale Tasih 4 held up well. Bednarik and a team of Indonesian boat makers and craftsmen built the raft out of natural materials, using sharpened stone tools comparable to those wielded by H. erectus. Despite the simplicity of such implements, prehistoric island colonizers must have possessed a broad range of knowledge and skills to assemble rafts on a par with Nale Tasih 4, Bednarik holds.
Ancient seafaring, he adds, coincided with other cultural advances usually attributed by scientists to H. sapiens, such as communicating with a spoken language and creating the carved and painted symbols that we now call art.
"A quantum leap in cognition and technology occurred around 900,000 years ago," Bednarik says. "All the traits that fundamentally define modern humans were first developed by Homo erectus."
Island hopping
The millennial voyage of Nale Tasih 4 started out swimmingly. After a couple of hours, the vessel reached deep sea, where it floated two-thirds of a mile above the ocean floor. A stubborn current began to muscle against the raft as 5-foot waves peeled off choppy waters.
Furious paddling produced little headway as the current's strength increased. Around noon, an exhausted Balinese paddler collapsed. Responding to a call radioed by Bednarik, a support ship picked up the man and dropped off a replacement.
The going stayed rough throughout the afternoon. Crewmembers couldn't keep the raft from drifting northward in the unrelenting current. Several of them fought off light-headedness brought on by fatigue. It looked as if the crossing might fail.
Then, the wind shifted and the sea calmed. A course correction and final push by the bedraggled paddlers brought Nale Tasih 4 to one of the Gillies Islands, just off Lombok's west coast, shortly after 6 p.m.
Bednarik cherishes such skin-of-the-teeth crossings. As director of the International Institute of Replicative Archaeology in South Caulfield, Australia, he is working to establish the minimum conditions necessary for H. erectus to have hopped from one island to another. Ancient vessels may not have looked like Nale Tasih 4, but they had to have been technological marvels for their time, if the Lombok Strait crossing is any guide.
Bednarik's technological explorations began in August 1997, when he directed 7 months of work on Nale Tasih 1, a 70-foot-long, 15-ton bamboo raft. It included two sails of woven palm leaves rigged on A-frame masts.
Bednarik hoped to sail the craft from the Indonesian island of Timor to Australia, recreating the crossing that presumably occurred as many as 60,000 years ago. However, sea trials indicated that the raft was too heavy to maneuver across the Timor Sea.
That experience resulted in Nale Tasih 2, a 58-foot-long, 2.8-ton bamboo raft rigged with a single palm-leaf sail. In December 1998, a crew guided this vessel from Timor to Australia, taking 13 days to travel nearly 600 miles. Two hollow mangrove tree trunks held fresh water for the travelers. Meals consisted of fish caught with bone harpoons and cooked over a small hearth, as well as rations of palm sugar and fruit.
The trip was no picnic, though. At times, Nale Tasih 2 braved tropical storms that whipped up 16-foot waves. The craft suffered extensive damage during these tempests, including a smashed rudder and a shredded sail. The five-man crew used stone tools to repair the damage at sea.
That mission accomplished, Bednarik turned to a simpler, oar-driven crossing from Bali to Flores that he contends happened as many as 750,000 years before the original Timor-to-Australia voyage. In March 1999, six oarsmen directed Nale Tasih 3 eastward from Bali into the Lombok Strait. The expedition was cut short after 6 hours of rowing, when the crew realized that currents had pulled them too far north to reach Lombok's west coast.
That set the stage for Nale Tasih 4's grueling demonstration of how H. erectus could have conquered a short but taxing stretch of ocean.
Our Stone Age ancestors were certainly smart enough to have traversed a nautical obstacle course such as the Lombok Strait, Bednarik contended in the April Cambridge Archaeological Journal. Findings by researchers working in Asia and Africa suggest that rock art, decorative beads, engraved stones, and hunting spears all originated at least several hundred thousand years before the appearance of H. sapiens. Such accomplishments would require that individuals speak to one another and assign abstract meanings to various objects and symbols, in Bednarik's opinion.
He suspects that genetic and cultural evolution played out slowly among human ancestors over the past 2 million years. Groups that moved across Africa and Asia interbred to some extent and passed cultural innovations back and forth.
In this continental melting pot, a hazy biological boundary separated H. erectus from H. sapiens. About 1 million years ago, Stone Age Asians probably congregated near coasts, and their fishing rafts were eventually adapted for sea travel. Remains of these shore inhabitants would have since become submerged and so are unavailable to archaeologists.
In contrast, many scientists maintain that H. sapiens alone developed language and symbolic thought, after having evolved in Africa between 200,000 and 150,000 years ago (SN: 6/14/03, p. 371: http://www.sciencenews.org/20030614/fob1.asp). Interbreeding and cultural exchanges played no role in modern humanity's rise, this camp argues.
Making waves
Bednarik has no qualms about paddling against the academic mainstream. Over the past 30 years, he's become a self-taught authority on Stone Age rock art. He's written hundreds of scientific articles and now edits three journals, all without having attended a university or earned an academic degree.
CANE CROSSING. Craftsman Abdeslam El Kasmi and scientist Robert Bednarik assemble part of a cane raft on the Moroccan coast of the Strait of Gibraltar.
Bednarik
His equally unconventional raft project, reminiscent of Thor Heyerdahl's 1947 voyage from Peru to Polynesia on a balsa raft, has its supporters.
"Maybe Bednarik is right," remarks archaeologist Michael J. Morwood of the University of New England in Armidale, Australia. Morwood directs ongoing excavations on Flores.
Only watercraft navigators and especially hardy, swimming creatures reached the island in the thick of the Stone Age, Morwood says. Dating of stone-tool-bearing sediment indicates that H. erectus occupied the island 840,000 years ago, in his view. At that time, fossil discoveries show that rodents and now-extinct elephants also lived there. Modern versions of these animals are renowned as long-distance swimmers.
"[Stone Age] seafaring appears to have been possible," says anthropologist Tim Bromage of Hunter College, City University of New York. Southeast Asian bamboo that grows in stalks as thick as 12 inches across provides a versatile material for building rafts with the aid of simple stone tools, he notes.
While H. erectus possessed enough smarts to construct rafts and navigate them to nearby islands, Bednarik errs in assuming that the ancient species gradually evolved into modern humanity, maintains anthropologist Russell L. Ciochon of the University of Iowa in Iowa City. Instead, H. erectus evolved in Asia and died out there, while today's people originated in Africa around 200,000 years ago, Ciochon says.
And Finally:
http://www.archaeology.org/9703/etc/specialreport.html
http://www.archaeology.org/9703/etc/specialreport.html
To understand the implications of these discoveries, one must be aware that the Indo-Malaysian Archipelago contains two very different biogeographical regions. The western islands on the Sunda Shelf--Sumatra, Java, Bali, and Borneo--were joined to each other and to the Asian mainland by landbridges during glacial periods of low sea level. Hence they supported rich Asian placental mammal faunas and were colonized by Homo erectus, perhaps as early as 1.8 million years ago. The eastern islands--Sulawesi, Lombok, Flores, Timor, the Moluccas, and the Philippines--have never been linked by landbridges to either the Sunda Shelf or Australia, or to each other. They had limited mammal faunas, chance arrivals from Asia and Australasia.
Migration through the archipelago has always required that humans cross substantial stretches of open sea. But when did they first attempt to do this? There is a current controversial claim by a joint Dutch-Indonesian team that humans were contemporaries of stegodons, extinct elephant-like animals, at a site called Mata Menge on the Indonesian island of Flores. Stone flakes and stegodon bones have been found here in presumed association in deposits located just above a reversal of the earth's magnetic field dating to 730,000 years ago. Should this claim receive future support we will have to allow for the possibility that even Homo erectus was able to cross open sea, in this case the 15-mile-wide Strait of Lombok between Bali and Lombok.
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marduk
Red shows the extended land area due to low sea levels
as you can see the lesser sunda islands are well within that land area
the wallace line seperates the sunda from the sahul shelf
thats why its significant
because anything either side of it is connected to a seperate continental landmass
and Really Beagle if you're going to present an argument you should if you were being honest present both sides of the story
otherwise what you are doing is Pseudoscience.
http://creationsafaris.com/crev1003.htmHomo erectus Was Fully Human 10/20/2003
Sometimes a scientific quest leads to adventure. The cover story of Science News1 for the week of Oct. 18 tells the seafaring tale of Robert G. Bednarik, who set out to prove that Asian populations of Homo erectus were the first sailors. The reason? Stone tools dated at 800,000 years (too old for Homo sapiens, but within the assumed age of H. erectus) have been found on Indonesian islands that presumably had no land bridges during the last million years. He finds the usual explanation for this a stretch (emphasis added in all quotes):
If hardy teams of H. erectus reached Flores [an island off Bali] by sea, their mode of transportation remains unknown. Some scientists suspect that small numbers of Stone Age folk accidentally [sic!] drifted as far as Flores after climbing onto thick mats of vegetation that sometimes form near the Southeast Asian coast.
That speculation doesn’t float, contends Bednarik. Only a craft propelled by its occupants could negotiate the treacherous straits separating one Indonesian island from the next.
So Bednarik and crew built a bamboo craft with stone tools and set out to sea. The harrowing voyage, through tropical storms and 16-foot waves, was successful. After paddling furiously 12 hours, and fixing broken masts and sails with their stone tools, they reached a nearby island, fatigued and dizzy, but alive.
Bednarik is director of the International Institute of Replicative Archaeology in South Caulfield, Australia. He has been bucking the current to show not only that Homo erectus was capable of building boats and navigating the open sea, but also possessed a culture, whose art and tools imply communication with spoken language and symbolic thought. “Bednarik has no qualms about paddling against the academic mainstream,” Bruce Bowers reports. “Over the past 30 years, he’s become a self-taught authority on Stone Age rock art. He’s written hundreds of scientific articles and now edits three journals, all without having attended a university or earned an academic degree.” Bowers compares him to Thor Heyerdahl, who upset the mainstream in 1947 with his theories of Polynesian island-hopping sailors.
Some scientists are entertaining the possibility that Bednarik is right. Others are skeptical and cling to the old story. To these, Bednarik taunts, “Armchair archaeologists, who think that sea crossings are a piece of cake, really ought to try doing this on drifting vegetation.” His next project is to sail to Sardinia from Greece, and across the Strait of Gibraltar, on cane rafts. For more information, see the First Mariners Project website.
On a related subject, the BBC News explores the controversy over artwork found in Italy alleged to be from H. erectus. Mainstream scientists cannot believe pre-humans living 150,000 or more years ago were capable of art, and attribute the face-like structures to geological processes. Then there is a figurine in Morocco claimed to be 400,000 years old.
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1Bruce Bowers, “Erectus Ahoy: Prehistoric seafaring floats into view,” Science News Week of Oct. 18, 2003; Vol. 164, No. 16.
What a great story on courage to challenge the mainstream. Both sides are still corrupted by the fallacious dating of alleged human ancestors, but at least Bednarik got out there and did some real experiments, even to the point of putting his life in danger. Talk is cheap because the supply exceeds the demand. Science is supposed to be about observation and experimentation, not mere talk. It’s easy to spin a tall tale about floating on a mat of vegetation, but go try it sometime in 16-foot waves!
Courage notwithstanding, Bednarik is enough of an evolutionist to spin his own just-so story to explain away the evidence:
He suspects that genetic and cultural evolution played out slowly [sic] among human ancestors over the past 2 million years [sic]. Groups that moved across Africa and Asia interbred to some extent and passed cultural innovations back and forth. In this continental melting pot, a hazy biological boundary separated H. erectus from H. sapiens. About 1 million years ago [sic], Stone Age Asians probably [sic] congregated near coasts, and their fishing rafts were eventually adapted for sea travel. Remains of these shore inhabitants would have [sic] since become submerged and so are unavailable to archaeologists.
The story goes on, but at least Bednarik’s version flies in the face of the “out of Africa” myth popular among mainstream evolutionists.
But think about it: if these individuals could speak in verbal language, with symbolic thoughts, and build boats and sail them, they were not primitive – they were human beings. Only an evolutionary mindset puts these individuals into an ancestral lineage with apes:
Some scientists, however, don’t think any part of Bednarik’s theory holds water. Stone Age folk 800,000 years ago didn’t make long-range plans, talk to one another, or form cultural groups, so they couldn’t have organized efforts to build rafts and row to islands, contends archaeologist Iain Davidson of the University of New England in Australia.
And why not? Because they were too stupid, too unevolved, to have been capable of such technology. That is an assumption, a belief: not a proof. Where, Dr. Davidson, is your empirical evidence? Bednarik at least has artwork and tools found on remote islands. Implements can be relatively primitive without being sub-human. To this day, naked Indians in the Amazon jungles subsist in grass huts with blow-gun darts, yet they are fully human, with language, culture and all the capabilities for abstract conceptual understanding. If stones were the only thing available to make tools, you would have made stone tools, too. Some people like the simple life.
Once again, the actual fossils in the assumed ape-man ancestry fit either of two categories: clearly ape or clearly human. It happened with Neanderthal and now it is happening with Homo erectus.
Do you need a degree to impact the world of science? It can help, but look at this example of an outsider. Sometimes college credentials only steer otherwise bright minds into the mainstream. It takes independence, critical thinking and courage to fight the current. Those skills are not necessarily taught in the university. Sometimes they are untaught! As long as you do exemplary work that cannot be refuted, you can shake up the world of ivory tower eggheads. Now if we can just get them to admit their dating methods also don’t float, we’ll be making real progress. Meanwhile, shake hands with Brother Erectus.
Next headline on: Early Man.
Iain DavidsonStone Age folk 800,000 years ago didn't make long-range plans, talk to one another, or form cultural groups, so they couldn't have organized efforts to build rafts and row to islands, contends archaeologist Iain Davidson of the University of New England in Australia.
For instance, the singular, unchanging appearance of stone tools from disparate regions throughout most of the Stone Age betrays an absence of cultural traditions in making and using such vital implements, Davidson says. Moreover, there's virtually no evidence of our 800,000-year-old ancestors having practiced group efforts of any kind, he adds. A small number of H. erectus individuals may accidentally have reached Flores, perhaps by floating on mats of vegetation, in Davidson's opinion.
"It seems premature to rule out the use of natural rafts of vegetation in colonization [of Flores]," remarks archaeologist Matthew Spriggs of Australian National University in Canberra."
BA(Cam) PhD(Cam)
Professor of Archaeology, School of Human & Environmental Studies
Iain has broad interests in empirical and theoretical issues in archaeology, particularly in the symbolic construction of landscape and in the history of communications and transport. He has been president of the Australian Archaeological Association (1991-2) and is a Fellow of the Australian Academy of the Humanities. He has just begun work on a SPIRT grant with DLWC to research Gamilaraay Resource Use.
(QUALIFIED TO COMMENT)
Matthew Spriggs, BA, MA (Cantab), PhD (ANU), GSM (Vanuatu), FSA, FAHA
Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology (half-time secondment to Archaeology and Natural History), Director (from 1 January 2003), Centre for Archaeological Research
(QUALIFIED TO COMMENT)
did you spot the comments about Benariks qualifications
He’s written hundreds of scientific articles and now edits three journals, all without having attended a university or earned an academic degree
UNQUALIFIED TO COMMENT
he's a journalist with a theory that isn't supported by enough evidence to convince anyone but his fan club
now where have we heard a similar story that recieved your full support before
you love pseudoscience don't you Beagle
maybe at some point you should try the real world
thats where the answers actually are
ROFLMAO
ah another claim without any evidence to back it upI didn't post it to defend it but I don't mind posting some evidence, but as a gentleman, I'll give you a chance to edit that last post.
ask yourself Beagle
when was the last time you heard a gentleman threaten someone
UNQUALIFIED TO COMMENT
1. No I shouldn't, and no it isn'tand Really Beagle if you're going to present an argument you should if you were being honest present both sides of the story
otherwise what you are doing is Pseudoscience
2. In your original post on this subject your only argument was that the islands in question, and particularly Flores, had been connected to the mainland at one time. Every post I made has refuted that. You have offered nothing.
3. I never said, nor is it true, that Bednariks theory was uncontested. But all you offered was an opinion by scientists who remain convinced that H. Erectus was not capable of such a feat. Opinions are not proof.
4. But to your original point of contention about Flores being connected to any land mass at any time - I rest my case.
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Sam Salmon
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marduk
1. yes you should or you''re hiding the truth in true pseudo style. yes it is, thats the definition of pseudoscience, an unqualified view not backed by any facts or qualified expert opinion1. No I shouldn't, and no it isn't
2. In your original post on this subject your only argument was that the islands in question, and particularly Flores, had been connected to the mainland at one time. Every post I made has refuted that. You have offered nothing.
3. I never said, nor is it true, that Bednariks theory was uncontested. But all you offered was an opinion by scientists who remain convinced that H. Erectus was not capable of such a feat. Opinions are not proof.
4. But to your original point of contention about Flores being connected to any land mass at any time - I rest my case.
2. I said nothing about flores learn to read, typical pseudo tactic pretending I said something I didn't then feigning superiority when you demean it
3. I offered an opinion by people who are qualified to make one, Bednarik isn't so therefore its not a theory its an unproven hypothesis
4. Flores was connected to the rest of the islands which were connected to the mainland. suggest you study archaeogeography a little more before making comments that continue to make you look foolish
Typical tactic of pseudoscience that is resting a case that hasn't actually been tried yet
ROFLMAO
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Minimalist
- Forum Moderator
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Movements of Birds, detritus washed up on beaches, seasonal changes in ocean currents, cloud formations.
I have trouble giving Homo Erectus credit for that kind of intellect.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
And still you offer no evidence - just insults. That just about says it all. You can't because you're wrong.Flores was connected to the rest of the islands which were connected to the mainland. suggest you study archaeogeography a little more before making comments that continue to make you look foolish
I know for a fact that my willingness to engage you in dialogue is getting on my fellow posters nerves. So, I'm done with your nonsense. I know that you'll continue with your antics, but don't expect me to respond.
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marduk
Beagle wrote:And still you offer no evidence - just insults. That just about says it all. You can't because you're wrong.Flores was connected to the rest of the islands which were connected to the mainland. suggest you study archaeogeography a little more before making comments that continue to make you look foolish
I know for a fact that my willingness to engage you in dialogue is getting on my fellow posters nerves. So, I'm done with your nonsense. I know that you'll continue with your antics, but don't expect me to respond.
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marduk
your willingness to engage in pseudoscience is getting on everyones nerves and your constant attacks on my posts which are both credible and based on real evidence is getting on my nervesI know for a fact that my willingness to engage you in dialogue is getting on my fellow posters nerves. So, I'm done with your nonsense. I know that you'll continue with your antics, but don't expect me to respond.
this is the archaeologica forum Beagle
not Beagles psuedoscientifica emporium
why don't you go post at the ghmb instead where your brand of nonsense and lack of credible evidence is popular
you obviously can't cut it here can you
Yep, you're in the vast majority on that one I imagine. They had a brain capacity that came close to us though, by the time they crossed that invisible evolutionary line.Minimalist wrote:Movements of Birds, detritus washed up on beaches, seasonal changes in ocean currents, cloud formations.
I have trouble giving Homo Erectus credit for that kind of intellect.
I'm just not sure what they were capable of.