Lower Palaeolithic Art in Britain?

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:51 pm

My name is Richard and I am fairly new to archaeology (6 months), no qualifications in this regard just an increasing interest. I can’t claim to have lurked for longer than a few days before succumbing to this great site.

The google search that brought me here was the discussion on Bednarik’s “Seafaring in the Pleistocene”. Of particular interest to me since I firmly believe the cognitive abilities of our ancestors have been largely downplayed.

Also of topical interest are Charlie Hatchetts’ “bird head” lithics, confirming (for me at least) once again the recurring and widespread use of animal themes across the world and throughout pre-history.

Some of the material I have collected is shown on my website. Most of it came from a 1m square (approx.) “exploratory” dig in my back garden whilst trying to understand the stratigraphy. On this topic I am definitely out of my depth and instead I have been overwhelmed with the quality of the finds.

Wait, wait… I can hear you say – I shouldn’t have removed anything out of context - however, I did not know that then, and besides from the apparent lack of interest (then and now) and since it was only a small test I hope I can be excused.

No, I don’t have a book to sell, and yes I do think that early Homo was capable of producing (and did) sculptures in stone. Neither am I here just to promote my site and opinions though clearly I would like some feedback on the material - I am here primarily to learn.

Until recently I had thought that the tools I believe I have found were probably produced by Heidelbergensis however I am starting to wander whether it was Erectus, partly what leads me to believe this is the style of knapping.

Now “aware” I am intent on going down the path of falsification but so far have found it difficult to obtain any professional help, partly my fault – for naively “pushing” the art angle (which I felt was indisputable/obvious) - but also apathy and apparent exclusivity from the archaeology community here in the UK. There is also a lot of conflicting advice.

Well, guess there’s plenty of material here to leave myself open to attack…

I am very interested in genuine feedback and welcome discussion on any of the material. I am used to the “natural”, “coincidental”, “fortuitous”, “frost damage” type responses (no need to tread lightly) but to date none of it has been backed with any substance or real explanation. I would also be particularly grateful for any serious advice about how to proceed.

www.palaeolithicart.co.uk

Thanks

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:26 pm

Despite being systematically stone-walled by the official archaeological community these images are presented here for public consumption since this is the closest I can get to putting them in a museum.

The Club will always tell you that you're wrong, Richard.

Don't listen to them.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:36 pm

BTW, I didn't see the "Lion" or the "Antelope" but, then again, a lot of this stuff is like a Rohrschact Test to me.

However, the "Birds" did look an awful lot like some of the stuff Charlie has posted.....with the same "avian" conclusion.

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:36 am

Thanks for the encouragement Min.

I have had some very strange responses from the "Club". Anything and everything but acceptance that the current "model" could be wrong.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:11 am

Anything and everything but acceptance that the current "model" could be wrong.

Too much ego on the line for them, you know?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:10 pm

Did you find this piece, Many?

You might find this link interesting:

http://www.stoneage-art.de/

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:04 pm

Yes, all featured on my website were found by me (or one of my children!), mostly in my 1m x 1m hole in my backgarden, expect the two marked "#" which are from a friends site (connected by river systems).

Thanks for the reference - I have spoken in some depth to Ursel Benekendorff one of the pioneers in this area, also Jan Van Es and Jan Evert Musch... and Alan Day.

As I understand it this "ignore Palaeolithic art it will go away" thing has been around a long time.

If I could work out how to submit a picture I have a good example of an Olduvai Gorge tool (approx 2mya) just to labour the point about face images.

Regards

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:18 pm

Rich,

If you have a picture you want to submit, and which is not already on the web, use this process.

Go to photobucket.com and open an account (it's free.)

Follow the prompts to upload your picture.

Copy the url for the picture and put it in the [Img] brackets.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:02 pm

Yes, all featured on my website were found by me (or one of my children!), mostly in my 1m x 1m hole in my backgarden, expect the two marked "#" which are from a friends site (connected by river systems).

Thanks for the reference - I have spoken in some depth to Ursel Benekendorff one of the pioneers in this area, also Jan Van Es and Jan Evert Musch... and Alan Day.

As I understand it this "ignore Palaeolithic art it will go away" thing has been around a long time.

If I could work out how to submit a picture I have a good example of an Olduvai Gorge tool (approx 2mya) just to labour the point about face images.

Regards
_________________
Richard

Well, then, your hooked up with the main players in this pioneering sub-field of archeology: Paleolithic Stone Art. Post much, and on different forums, to get your info out. As Min stated in another post:

The Club probably hates the internet.....really cuts into their monopoly on information.

Let Freedom Reign!!

P.S.- Have you determined if this piece has a definite patina on it:

If that piece is authentic, then it is a real treasure!!!

I'd keep it in a very safe place.

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:08 pm

Thanks again for the tip Min.

hmmm.. second thoughts .. not sure about infringing copyright. It can be seen bottom of pg. 252. "From Lucy to Language" D. Johanson & B. Edgar, Photo D. Brill.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:09 pm

Let Freedom Reign!!

In Vino Veritas!

(Another of my favorites!)

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:10 pm

Manystones wrote:Thanks again for the tip Min.

hmmm.. second thoughts .. not sure about infringing copyright. It can be seen bottom of pg. 252. "From Lucy to Language" D. Johanson & B. Edgar, Photo D. Brill.

If it's in a book you would have to scan it first.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:37 pm

In Vino Veritas!

(Another of my favorites!)

Also, one of my favorite Doc Holiday sayings:

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/98 ... /latin.wav

Manystones · Post by **Manystones** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:42 pm

If that piece is authentic, then it is a real treasure!!!

Cheers Charlie That's my view too... I just thought it was obvious, but this one according to a UK Palaeoart expert has removals which are "too steep". Never mind the fact that there are at least 4 different face images - had you noticed the embryo shape in the middle too?

At risk of misunderstanding what you mean a similar patina to a lot of the stuff at my site (although there appears to be a range) can be seen at http://www.beloit.edu/~museum/logan/pal ... ritain.htm

Another of my favourites is the Gorilla 01 - now how can "natural processes" possibly produce something with at least two perspectives of the same animal species? (and one not found in Europe) http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard.wi ... lla_01.htm

Here's a detail image from Bear 02

And especially for you Min substitute /gorilla_01 for /olduvai007a.jpg to see the image mentioned.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:52 pm

If that piece is authentic, then it is a real treasure!!!

Cheers Charlie That's my view too... I just thought it was obvious, but this one according to a UK Palaeoart expert has removals which are "too steep". Never mind the fact that there are at least 4 different face images - had you noticed the embryo shape in the middle too?

At risk of misunderstanding what you mean a similar patina to a lot of the stuff at my site (although there appears to be a range) can be seen at http://www.beloit.edu/~museum/logan/pal ... ritain.htm

...our Home Erectus brothers apparently liked birds.

Nice photos, Many!!