Pre-Columbian settlement.

[War Arrow]

There's plenty of preclovis stuff drifting in and out of the various threads at the moment and I've kind of lost track of where to put this, but given the above title, hopefully it's still a relevant question.
If there was a significant influx of preclovis peoples into the Americas AND they came from the same source as the Amerind, Eskimo-Aluet and Na-Dene groups, only much earlier - would said earlier migration necessarily show up as significant in the DNA record (of present day native Americans) given a theoretical common geographical origin? I'm not discounting settlers from other places here by the way, just focussing on this one possibility.

[Digit]

HI, WA. Correct me if I've misunderstood you, but I take it that you mean that certain genetic markers can be lost over time, as in the Moorish/Spanish connection? I contend that if they found the evidence then they found the evidence, however unlikely. I'm hoping that the programme is re-run because I didn't note the names of the researchers nor their universities. I THINK the tribe was the Algonquins, but I can't recall the site, again I THINK it was in Virginia. I'm hoping someone else may have seen the programme and they might be able to correct me and add further information.

[War Arrow]

Hmmm. No, in the case of my question and in terms of your response - I was kind of thinking aloud, wondering whether a preclovis people might not be apparent from contemporary native American DNA due to their genetic markers (that was the term I needed) possibly being too similar to be distinguished from those of their successors - through sharing a common origin. I suppose my question depends on the rate of er... genetic drift (out of my depth here) in a population over time. Say you have group X who live in country X for 2000 years. In the year 100, splinter-group A ups and leaves for country Y. In the year 1100, splinter-group B follows in their footsteps. When the two splinter-groups meet up, how much variation will have occurred within their respective gene pools? By the year 2000, will the DNA of the descendants of A and B contain any traces of two seperate and distinct migrations or will it only have recorded a general origin within country X?

Can genetic markers be lost over time? I didn't think that was so, but I'm no Jeffrey Archer, as Father Dougal Maguire once put it.

[Barracuda]

And there is the simple possibility that people were here pre-Clovis, but died out before the Clovis migration, therefore leaving no genetic markers.

I bet history is full of ultimately unsuccessful immigrations, that might have flourished for generations.

[Digit]

Pass.

[santyago]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rans.shtml

[Digit]

Well there it is folks. Now I can refresh my memory and apologise for my lapses in memory.

[Minimalist]

When Adovasio published his findings he was simply dismissed out of hand.

Common reaction from The Club.

[Digit]

Dare I say it Min but there's a quotation in the old testament that refers to prophets without honour in their own country. Didn't know the Club was around then did you?
Frankly history shows that in many cases being rubbished by the establishment is followed by an explanation as to how 'Iwas quoted out of context, I knew he was right all along'.

[War Arrow]

Along these lines I'm trying hard to think of one major scientific finding in history which hasn't started off with a great big row, mumblings of heresy, followed at some point by a sea of red faces and awkwardly shuffling feet. Maybe in some ways it ain't such a bad thing - philosophical Darwinism of sorts - if a theory holds up under that much fire then it's probably got something going for it.

Just thinking aloud here, just in case you think the Club's finally flipped me.

[Beagle]

http://www.s2nmedia.com/arctic/html/den ... nford.html

One of the people in that last url was Dr. Dennis Stanford. Here he is with his views.

BTW - welcome Santyago.

[Minimalist]

Didn't know the Club was around then did you?

The Club has always been around....call it "The Establishment" if you prefer.

[AD]

Hi Digit...

You might find it worthwhile to take a look at another discussion thread in this forum: "Lower Paleolithic Art in Britain?". Among other strange things, it touches on rather clear thematic similarities between "portable rock art" pieces in England (possibly as old as 450,000 years) and many here in North America of unknown age.

You might also find this website interesting: http://www.daysknob.com

Regards, Alan

[Digit]

Hi Alan, welcome to the club. No! Not that club! The club for those who have finally realised that life is for living, not working. Like you, before I retired I held some of the most fascinating posts any engineer can hope to aspire to. So fascinating I was married to the job and I was in my fifties before I grew to understand that there were other things in life. So welcome to the club.

[Minimalist]

Hi Alan, welcome to the club