Pre-Columbian settlement.

[Bruce]

d- There was some kind of warning given but too late to save more than a handful.

These were glacial lakes forming and the dam bursting. Luckily somebody got a clue and at least tried to warn people, but the club was at work even then.

[Digit]

That sounds like sticking plasters doesn't it? What Egyptologists rarely like to mention is the gaps in our knowledge, both within dynastic periods and in the gaps between. Much early Egyptology was devoted to trying to make it fit into Biblical chronology.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Extensive catastrophic Ice Age floods some 43 to 13 thousand years ago in south-central Siberia have been discovered recently. These ‘super-floods’ are similar in size to the Missoula floods which swept across the northern states of the USA at about the same time. The Missoula floods were about 6km wide and 150m deep with flow speeds of 25 metres per second. They discharged around 20 million cubic metres of water at peak flow. The Altai floods were about the same discharge but were up to 400m deep!! A small domestic refrigerator has a capacity of around 1 cubic metre and so if you had been sitting on a mountain top as the flood went by you have to imagine about 20 million fridges passing by you EVERY second!!! That gives an idea of THE SIZE OF THESE FLOODS very effectively. Archaeological evidence shows that in the latter part of the Ice Age there were people living in the area who might have witnessed the floods or indeed could have been killed by the massive flood waves. These floods produced giant gravel ripples and giant flood bars in the landscape on a scale similar to that associated with the draining of glacial Lake Missoula in North America around the same time.

Pretty tight concordance there, Min. Interesting.

Missoula floods were about 6km wide and 150m deep with flow speeds of 25 metres per second.

150m deep... 400m deep!!

Of course, you probably had your X games types, attempting to ride the huge waves in their tricked out canoes...lol!!

These floods produced giant gravel ripples and giant flood bars in the landscape on a scale similar to that associated with the draining of glacial Lake Missoula in North America around the same time.

Based on local observations, I agree...may be onto something here guys. If we can demonstrate a world wide pattern of this flooding, with relatively tight, concordant dating, it may explain these many legends from around the world, concerning a flood unlike these Paleo-Peeps had ever witnessed. I'm sure the retelling of the event would have been preserved in the oral tradition for quite some time. To this date, it seems to intrique us.


Local gravel ripples and flood bars:

















http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site9.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site10.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site11.jpg

_________________________________________________________

Close up strat shots:



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site37.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site38.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site39.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site40.jpg

Note, Clovis occupation is firmly established at the contact of the the silt/clay (Isi) and gravel (Igl) strata (the above image, site 38, shows the contact well).



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site27.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/site28.jpg

Valley scouring marks indicate the beginning of the alluvial event.

Even this hill, with the approximations Min provided, would have been covered:



Topo:

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=30. ... ayer=DRG25

[Minimalist]

Much early Egyptology was devoted to trying to make it fit into Biblical chronology.

True of all archaeology. Still is, to a certain degree particularly when protestant seminarians are out there doing the digging.

[Minimalist]

d- There was some kind of warning given but too late to save more than a handful.

These were glacial lakes forming and the dam bursting. Luckily somebody got a clue and at least tried to warn people, but the club was at work even then.

Yeah, but Bruce here is the rub. Who would have been able to observe the glacial lakes forming and the dams bursting and been able to get a warning out to the coasts....1,500 miles away? Hancock implies some sort of Ice Age civilization which was swept away but would have had the ability to notice and warn about disaster. Sort of like a FEMA that worked as opposed to what we have in the US.

[Minimalist]

If we can demonstrate a world wide pattern of this flooding,

i don't know that the idea is in any great dispute, Charlie. The most recent thing I recall seeing was an ocean core discussion about how large amounts of fresh water were dumped into the ocean at one time thus effecting the gulf stream and climate. I can see I need to go digging, again. But that's okay....you dig with the snakes and I'll dig with Google.

[Minimalist]

Here, Charlie....I only scanned it but it is from 2005 and discusses drainage of glacial meltwater.

Make sure you take a look at Figure 5.

http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/~ ... 202006.pdf

[Minimalist]

Mas.

http://www.igsb.uiowa.edu/browse/glacflds/glacflds.htm

[Cognito]

Hancock implies some sort of Ice Age civilization which was swept away but would have had the ability to notice and warn about disaster. Sort of like a FEMA that worked as opposed to what we have in the US.

Hancock entirely missed the largest pleistocene flood in his book, the Altai. Oops! Given that the world's population at the Younger Dras was about 4 million, I would really like to see his definition of a "civilisation". So much for accuracy.

[Minimalist]

Un poco mas.

http://www.geo.msu.edu/geo333/glacial.html

GLACIAL LAKES IN MICHIGAN

It is generally accepted that the Great Lakes did not exist in preglacial times but are the cumulative result of several phases of glaciation that took place during the last 1.5 million years (the Quaternary Period). It is also believed that some sort of system of large lakes existed in conjunction with the earlier glacial and interglacial episodes, but the character and configuration of the present Great Lakes are the products of the final deglaciation of their drainage basin that began around 14,800 years before the present (14,800 BP). At that time several major ice lobes characterized the margin of the continental glacier within the Great Lakes area. These included, from west to east, the Superior (1), Chippewa (2), Green Bay (3), Michigan (4), Saginaw (5), and Huron-Erie (6) lobes. As the margins of these lobes retreated, glacial meltwater and precipitation drained southward to the Gulf of Mexico because higher land or glacial ice blocked flow in other directions.

[Beagle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz

Don't forget Lake Agassiz, thought to be the cause of the Younger Dryar event.

[Minimalist]

Hancock implies some sort of Ice Age civilization which was swept away but would have had the ability to notice and warn about disaster. Sort of like a FEMA that worked as opposed to what we have in the US.

Hancock entirely missed the largest pleistocene flood in his book, the Altai. Oops! Given that the world's population at the Younger Dras was about 4 million, I would really like to see his definition of a "civilisation". So much for accuracy.

To be fair, Cogs, Hancock was more concerned about the effect of the rise in sea level on low-lying coastal settlements. I first learned about the 'superflood' concept from him but he did not discuss in any depth the effect on rivers or streams and any people living alongside them.

[Minimalist]

Don't forget Lake Agassiz

This must be "Give Charlie Homework Day," huh?

[Beagle]

Turnabout is fair play. I've gone cross-eyed looking at his rocks.

[Charlie Hatchett]

I can see I need to go digging, again. But that's okay....you dig with the snakes and I'll dig with Google.

That's O.K., Min. You bring your muskets, I'll bring my twelve gauge...and we'll do lunch...lol!!