Lithic Slate tools.

flintoff · Post by **flintoff** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:12 am

Hi Charlie, yes all coming from the same context...the flint piece with the burnt end is i think a push scraper, i have an exact identicle made from charcoal....the charcoal pieces i find on this field are all in man carved shapes...some resemble tools like the 1 im on about now, others resemble possibly figures but im not really sure...all purposely formed though for deffinate as i have quite a few that are duplicated many times over in both shape & size...possible votive? ....iv got literally Thousands of pieces, all found by myself but alot of them like the slate pieces am finding it hard to get assurance & confirmation for due to them being unique no1 wants to put their name on them for some strange reason....iv sought help world wide...

...these people are always stating about there is so much we dont know about our past...so much undiscovered stuff yet when new finds come to light these people just dont want to know.....unless they find it themselves ofcourse then they will have a guess at what it could be then title it as being such....if you haven't got the archaeologist title & you find something new, forget it, you wont get it recognised......this is an argument i have been involved in for a few years now.....all you need is an avid interest in your hobby, i hunt sometimes 5 days out of the 7 for 5 to 6 hours a day.....archaeologists may go on a dig once a year...a few square feet pit & thats it....i find more than they have knowledge of, i know when a tool is a tool, i know when a piece of material has been worked, i know all about raw material, techniques used, bulb percussions, bifacial & opposite etc etc etc....but because i havent got the archae title it dosent count....this really makes me mad, what gives them the right to find something they have never seen before & guess at its original purpose then class it as being such....what gives them the right to just dismiss a find solely because the finder hasn't got the title...

....like i say, if you're an avid fanatic about anything, you know your stuff because of the interest which is all that counts in my eyes.

flintoff · Post by **flintoff** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:40 am

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:56 am

...not getting too tedious for you i hope?....iv got about another 19,961 to show you lol...

Oh, silly guy. I'll bury you in rocks!! Lol...

Seriously, though, your stuff above looks worked...no doubt.

Have you found anything datable in the strata from which the pieces are coming?

flintoff · Post by **flintoff** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:31 am

Post by **MichelleH** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:33 am

flintoff said:

all the flint & ironage pieces are for sale if any1 is interested.....

Steve,

Please refrain form 'selling' in the forums.

Thanks,
Michelle

flintoff · Post by **flintoff** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:25 am

sorry Michelle, wont happen again

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:57 am

Please refrain form 'selling' in the forums.

Michelle, does that mean I cannot advertise my late 1950s collection of Mad Magazines here?

What about my vintage Hopalong Cassidy and horse Topper in the original box?

War Arrow · Post by **War Arrow** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:01 pm

Selling your vintage collection of 1950s Mad magazines? Are you crazy?

Michelle's doing you a favour and one day you'll be glad of it.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:16 pm

I've got this whole collection of t-shirts.....

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:30 pm

Flintoff...about these slate "tools."
When I google slate tools I get images of ground and polished
artifacts, not flaked ones.
You know how slate, being sedimentary, breaks off in layers...not much good for percussion flaking...and even when you break it off to get a sharp edge, it isn't very
sharp, or should I say not as sharp as flint or chert. So sure, you could use these fragments as crude scrapers, but they don't appear to have any style or defininitve shape to them, that indicates a clear function, especially if they are supposed to be neolithic. And since other materials were available...flint is abundant in England...why would anyone bother with slate?

And about those iron blobs....can you indicate one good "pommel"?

Also, you mentioned charcoal....how or why would you make a tool out of something as soft as charcoal?

Post by **MichelleH** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:53 pm

What about my vintage Hopalong Cassidy and horse Topper in the original box?

This you can keep to yourself

does that mean I cannot advertise my late 1950s collection of Mad Magazines here?

These I would buy off you

flintoff · Post by **flintoff** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:45 am

Stan, the Pommels still in the ciorroded condition, i clean them when i need to sell them only due to the hard job of cleaning Iron as you can imagine, these are all mainly dagger Pommels but a few sword do show up every so often....the burning of charcoal was practised from the early Mesolithic era around -13000BCE...if you read what i said correctly i stated i wasn't sure of their purpose which i still aint but i do know during the Bronze age & later charcoal was used to form votive pieces in the form of tools & figurines...yes i would have thought too it would be too soft to use as any implement. The Slate pieces are tools, if you know anything about lithic workmanship you will know you have to hold the piece in your hand to tell what it is or could have been....scanning pics only shows basic shape which is what throws alot of people....dont get me wrong, im not typing this with an arogant feeling, just explaining how it is

Rgds F.

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:57 am

On what basis other than your intuition do you assert that the slate pieces are tools?

Also, can you show us a before cleaning and after cleaning picture of a pommel?

charcoal was used to form votive pieces in the form of tools & figurines...

Your use the verb "to form" in this quote is ambiguous...did you mean that charcoal was used to smelt the metals?[/b]

flintoff · Post by **flintoff** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:27 am

I would gladly show you a before & after pic Stan if i had 1 but i have no intention of spending a week cleaning 1 just for this reason...what i will do though is ask a regular buyer whome i sell to to email me 1 or 2 show you can see the out come of the cleaning process....the Slate pieces are easily recognisable as being the latter if you are knowledgable in this field....i have 11 years experience dealing with lithic material which is more than enough to see the working on these pieces, not only for that reason but the area where i find these has never housed buildings that would have had Slate as a roofing option....the last building to have stood here was a 2nd century Roman residence hence being on the Roman town Once stood. The Slate pieces are only found amongst the knapping rings & no where else...the common Neolithic lined detail on the implement pictured has been recognised by bodies of importance & has been confirmed as being such...although i new this myself but had to obtain clarification anyway...I have done all my homework on my town, i know probably 99% of its original habitation dating from the early Iron age, having many sources for info like museums, heritage conference & the Doomsday book & also the experience & knowledge gained from working with the PAS confirms it all.[/i]

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:33 pm

Flint, it looks like you have something there although a few of the pics just look like rocks. As you say, however, it's hard to tell from just pics. The engraved pottery you showed is definitely engraved, but I'm not sure it's pottery. Again it's hard to tell from photos. Try only showing the experts the ones you are absolutely sure of. You and Charlie have the same problem of overwhelming people with too much info at once. People see the questionable stuff and it takes away from your credibility. Here in Texas we call that "baffling them with bullshit" You and Charlie both seem to do that, with absolutely good intentions. Your enthusiasm is admirable, but can be taken as something else if you're not careful. People may tend to think you're nuts and simply ignore you. Just a little friendly advice there. Welcome to our forum, Flint! Keep up the good work.