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War Arrow · Post by **War Arrow** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:30 am

Minimalist wrote:Of course, one other thought has now popped into my head. Why would people who had discovered iron have still been spending time making stone points?

If this is of any bearing, one of the interesting points DBC Pierre made about preHispanic Mexican cultures (when he wasn't smoking and boozing) is that there was little impetus to develop metallurgy beyond the creation of mostly ornamental objects (jewellery and copper "axe-head" monetary tokens - mostly produced in Tenochtitlan's Mixtec quarter I believe). Obsidian, if brittle, can make for a far sharper blade than even steel.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:34 am

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Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:52 am

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Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:17 am

Charlie, I've got all 12 docs. downloaded and I hope to have them read by the end of today.

Are you suggesting that I stay close to my bathroom?

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:20 am

The context of the furnace structures and associated artifacts seems to point to a date older than the gravel cap.

It would not be the first place on earth where it would seem that older technology is more advanced than newer. The Giza Pyramids, allegedly the 4th, 5th and 6th of nearly 100 built, are far more technically advanced than later structures....most of which are little more than piles of rubble at this point.

Perhaps your people had the secret of iron and lost it?

That would be consistent with Hancock's belief that civilization had advanced before and been flattened by the end of the ice age.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:27 am

I'm finished....whew!

To re-cap.

One - The furnace. It is always possible that a group of European/American explorers/invaders/settlers/etc. could have dug down to the bedrock for the purpose of making iron or, as Kissin suggests, retrieving sulfur from pyrite. How logical it is remains something else. By the 16th century the concept of bellows was well known and if you want to put air into a fire it sure as hell seems a lot easier to make some bellows than to drill a hole through the bedrock from one pit to another. You get the same result with a hell of a lot less effort. Thus, it seems that showing that the two pits are connected is a vital factor in showing that this was some sort of permanent "industrial" site rather than a scratch job by a bunch of lost Europeans who needed to replace horse shoes.

Two - The stones. Some of those pieces are debatable at least from the photos, as to whether or not they have been worked or not. Others are crystal clear that they have been knapped by people who knew what they were doing. It seems that the issue comes back to dating. Find one worked stone with a date to 15,000 BC and you knock (another) hole in the Bering Strait model. Find one that dates to 145,000 BC and you knock a hole in Out of Africa. In fact, since lots of people claim that HSS did not arise until after 100,000 BC you would seem to leave people with one of 4 choices:

a- An unknown species inhabiting the America's at some remote date;
b- Acknowledge that HNS got around a lot more than they have been given credit for;
c- Erectus having not only gotten here but hanging around for a damned long time;
d- Call you every name under the sun in an effort to discredit your findings.

(I wonder which the Club will go for?)

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:56 pm

I wonder which the Club will go for?)

Poor Charlie.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:34 pm

charlie you got my support! but i have to put h erectus in with neandertal on the north american continent 300,00-250,000bp.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:14 pm

charlie you got my support! but i have to put h erectus in with neandertal on the north american continent 300,00-250,000bp.

Neanderthals never made it much farther east than the Caucasus region. H. erectus however, was all over the Far East and Indonesia. In addition, they were proved to be capable of building rafts and traversing small bodies of water.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:32 pm

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Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:37 pm

Absolutely.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:48 pm

Speaking of the stones, just today, Berkeley's Geochronology Laboratory has requested I send them 6 more samples of artifacts unraveling from these sites. They wish to conduct more U series dating. Jim Bischoff, with the USGS, shared his research with Berkeley. If we can get replication of the 147,500 B.P. date, by an independent source, that will strengthen the case quite a bit.

Atta Boy, Charlie. Go get 'em!!!

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:29 pm

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Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:53 pm

Atta Boy, Charlie. Go get 'em!!!

Pass on the encouraging news to Fred. As a fellow comrade, I think I can relate to his frustrations and struggles. He's sounds like my kind of guy!! Screw the establishment, I want truth...very cool, and rare, indeed.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:56 pm

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