It's always older than you think!

Mike Jupp · Post by **Mike Jupp** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:17 pm

Hot from the press-
You're going to love this!!!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6191462.stm

..If you liked that/..Youll love these!
http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/ane/a ... ml#battery

The Baghdad Batteries

In 1938, whilst rummaging through the basement of the Baghdad Museum, Austrian archaeologist Dr. Wilhelm Konig made a strange discovery. A 6 inch yellow clay pot with a sheet copper cylinder soldered with lead tin - dating back 2000 years, this was possibly the world's first battery and an example of a neat soldering job. An iron rod holding the construction in place was corroded with acid, not a chance arrangement but an ancient electric battery. Konig also found copper vases dating to 2500BC with a blue silver film electroplated to the copper. These prototype batteries were developed from the oldest human civilizations of the Middle East. The dozen Baghdad batteries are shrouded in mystery as to their invention and usage, an ancient enigma. No two are exactly the same, how many were ever made is not known. Hailing from the start of the scientific medieval era, their creation does not fit well with the Biblical mysticism of Babylon but stems from the advanced mathematic development of old Babylon.

Replicas of the batteries have been made generating just a tiny 0.8 to 2 volts, although if connected in series, theoretically much higher voltages could have been produced, though no wires exist to prove this. Some theories exist that they were used medicinally like the use of electric eels or acupuncture coupled with electric current. Others believe the batteries were used for electroplating, like gilding. Alchemy would certainly have won you fine friends in high places and be a reason the discovery was kept secret, although no electroplated items have been found dating from this era.

This experiment with battery replicas was said to be carried out by the Pelizaeus Museum in Hildesheim in 1978, but no records exist of these experiments. Perhaps the more probable explanation is in bogus mysticism, the batteries together could have produced a small static discharge giving anyone touching a connected object a slight shock. Priest may have hid them inside an idol in an early lie detector test, triggering the current or flash of light for the 'correct' answer to stimulate belief. An object could be 'charged' with godly powers, like the Oracle of Delphi, or perhaps the Ark of the Covenant, upon which anyone who touched it would be struck down by God. Maybe this has a loose connection with the bizarre discovery. Perhaps they were just a pure scientific experiment, which never found a successful use during their era. Ironically, the yellow pot batteries probably resembled in part the deadly ammunition of cluster bombs, yellow coke can size bombs which can destroy a whole building is detonated, used to destroy Baghdad during the two Gulf Wars of 1991 and 2003. A strange if not freaky coincidence showing the link between two disparate times if not similar violent and technologically advanced cultures.

This article copied and pasted from,
http://www.pilotguides.com/

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:35 pm

1. the asphalt completely covers the copper cylinder, electrically insulating it, so no current can be drawn without modifying the design;
2.there are not any wires or conductors with them;
3.no widely accepted electrical equipment is associated with them
4. an asphalt seal, being thermoplastic, is excellent for forming a hermetic seal for long term storage. It would be extremely inconvenient however for a galvanic cell, which would require frequent topping up of the electrolyte (if they were intended for extended use).

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:48 pm

This experiment with battery replicas was said to be carried out by the Pelizaeus Museum in Hildesheim in 1978, but no records exist of these experiments.

The Discovery Channel show, Mythbusters, did a series of tests on the Baghdad battery and found that a constant low level current was produced. They also showed that electro-plating was feasible and did so with a penny. Tests about medical or religious uses were less convincing in my opinion.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:59 pm

more effective as a battery and easier to make
http://hilaroad.com/camp/projects/lemon ... ttery.html

Mike Jupp · Post by **Mike Jupp** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:14 pm

A sort and Battery

It was the news about the Antikythera Mechanism which I really thought was fab!

Regarding the 'batteries'...and bearing in mind the amount today's great unwashed know about 'Astrology' compared with Astronomy. Considering the airtime 'Astrologers' get compared with Astronomers!... I suspect knavery with them 'batteries'.
I know that at the time they were made, Astronomers were Astrologers and vice-versa, but that only means they had real information mixed with nonsense to render the gullible susceptible..Susceptible to being controlled and having their wallets lightened!!!

And what better way to prove contact with the gods of 'Up there'...than some crackling sparks, acrid smells and dim lights! (with a bit of curtain trembling and cylinder seal rattling)

"Oooh er Mr. Priest! I DO believe! 'Ere, have all my money, and can I wash your camel?"

and I bet they were CHARGED to get in to see the miracles (ho ho ho

)

The sensible thought is that the batteries were used for guilding.
Probably?..But I know which one I'd pay a time-machine to let me go and watch!

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:08 am

The sensible thought is that the batteries were used for guilding.

how so
these batteries had no terminals on them at all
true they may have generated a charge to the same degree that any citrus fruit contains one but
a lemon by any other name is still a lemon (shakespeare- kind of

)

Mike Jupp · Post by **Mike Jupp** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:47 am

I'm only guessing here about 'terminals', but gold wire was certainly available. It was used extensively as a 'solder' to make jewelrey. Is it not possible that gold wire was simply attached to the top of the iron rod?
Apperently, it was Acetic Acid.
That makes sense!! Someone leaves wine exposed?..Piece(s) of metal falls into wine?..Someone discovers liquid, sticks finger into liquid to test what it is...discovers interesting properties?
Someone develops interesting properties?
Who knows?
..Except that I probably don't!

Fascinating

M

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:59 am

thing is
just because you know that gold wire conducts electricity doesnt mean that ancient peoples did
but unless you adapt the ceramic jar then theres no way to attach the wires anyway so its a moot point
and what do you think they were powering with less than 1v anyway
it wouldn't create a tingle to the touch anymore than a modern day 1.5 v battery does when you hod the terminal between your fingers because the current isnt strong enough to penetrate your skin

Mike Jupp · Post by **Mike Jupp** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:34 am

marduk wrote:thing is
just because you know that gold wire conducts electricity doesnt mean that ancient peoples did

I totally agree that they didn't..not until someone discovered that gold, or some other metal wire DID!
I associate that with my 'Beneficial Accident' theory.
If the things were 'batteries' then they exist! If they exist they must have had a purpose...Like you, I have no idea what for? As for their power output..I have no idea about that either.

I once spent some time with the Late Professor Eric Laithwaite (Inventor of the Linear Motor, amongst other things!)... in his office at Imperial College in London. While I was there he produced a glass Ink pot. It was full of a dark fluid (INK?? thought I)
...He opened the top and held a small child's magnet (you know the type, the little red horseshoe shaped thingy!) above the jar.
The liquid rose out of the jar and stood in a a liquid column.
I can tell you that I was mightily impressed!
"Wassat then? I asked.
"Ferro fluid!" declared the Great man!.
"What are you going to use that for?" enquired the cartoonist.
"I have no idea?" replied the Professor!

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:56 pm

For fun, here's a link to the Smith College Museum of Ancient Inventions:

http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient ... sclist.htm

There's a thumbnail of the Baghdad Battery with a nice, detailed photo of a reconstruction and brief description.

How about the possibilty of the object being a tingler, like a vibrator...an aphrodisiac or something....just freeassociationg here...Marduks mention of a modern battery reminded me of the tingle you get if you touch your tongue to
the two poles of a 9 volt battery.
If the charge isn't enough to penetrate your skin, you could put the two wires THROUGH ths skin, or maybe wet the skin, to produce a faint tingling sensation.

War Arrow · Post by **War Arrow** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:36 am

stan wrote:How about the possibilty of the object being a tingler, like a vibrator...an aphrodisiac or something....just freeassociationg here...

Oh Jesus. I don't buy this battery thing I'm afraid but I had exactly the same thought. I'm spending way too much time on the internet and the annoying thing is I actually do have a life. So there's no excuse.