Inteligent Design

[Guest]

I never said it was! But dogma works both ways.

[Guest]

"ID is untestable and unprovable"

give me an example or two to back up your claim. the only part that is untestable is the original act of creation but that goes for the evolutionists idea of the origin of the world also, thus the big bang is not scientific.

"Science requires proof"
then why can evolution exist? it can not provide proof for its claims. nor can you use the arguments that 'evolution has changed or it happened millions of years ago...etc.' because those are just excuses to allow an adherent to avoid providing any proof.

you can not chastise one theory for being unscientific when your own is lacking the ability to conform to the scientifc principles. if you do, then you are just being hypocritical.

again the fossil record can not be used as evidence for the evolutionary process. all it can do is show that two different animals or people existed in the past at some point in time. anything in between is just conjecture and unobservable, untestable and unproveable.

the proponents of i.d./creation do not need to test its theory because we see it in action everyday. everything described in the Genesis account we can point to happening today and throughout history. e.g.: day and night, animals giving birth to animals, humans giving birth to humans and so on. throughout the historical and archaeological records, it hasn't changed.

science is a great tool to help us live our lives better but it fails when it ignores the facts that are in plain sight.

[Tech]

Ladies and Gentlemen.........
JM is back
under the guise of Archaeologist

[Guest]

Indeed! Even more obstinant and immovable. Making points that only make sense to herself. Using lots of words to say nothing. At least she sin't quoting scripture........yet.

[Doe]

"It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun.

The controversies about evolution lie in the realm of the relative importance of various forces in molding evolution."

- R. C. Lewontin "Evolution/Creation Debate: A Time for Truth" Bioscience 31, 559 (1981) reprinted in Evolution versus Creationism, op cit.[quote][/quote]

[Minimalist]

That's only one article. I know that few people outside America actually care about this "debate", but continually quoting only one source isn't the best way for supporters of evolution to prove their point.

I disagree completely. Unfortunately, evolution and its related sciences are so complex that it takes a major effort to put them into layman's terms. Scientific American did a superb job refuting Creationist nonsense, but how many people can bother to read it?

As the great H. L. Mencken said, "there is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong."

And that is where the bible comes in. But don't get all huffy about it because it is not just your bible. All religion is about controlling people for the benefit of the priest class (which parasites are supported by the faithful) and the state.....(same comment.)

[Doe]

Does anyone else find the title of this thread hilarious?

[Guest]

"Ladies and Gentlemen.........
JM is back :

sorry, but i am not jm and i am not a she.

"It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory'

i would have to disagree with this statement as there is no way anyone can prove that evolution happened in the manner it is described. you have no control to compare data or results, no observable transformations, let alone sexual unions to keep the new species alive and pro-creating, you have no idea what the original conditions were that started it all so you can't re-create the process to see if it is true.

so in reality you have no facts nor scientific evidence to stand upon. i mean for a male and female to appear at the exact same time and in relatively the same spot to co-mingle all by chance is a bit of a stretch of the imagination. talk about a leap of faith that surpasses the christian one.

by the way, another reason people hate i.d./creation is that it provides answers. evolution gives people something to do, investigate, theorize while i.d./creation answers all of the questions and allows people to focus on what is important; their daily lives and how they relate to others.

[Guest]

I disagree completely. Unfortunately, evolution and its related sciences are so complex that it takes a major effort to put them into layman's terms. Scientific American did a superb job refuting Creationist nonsense, but how many people can bother to read it?

If it doesn't circulate outside America, there's your answer. Can't say I've heard of it, much less seen it. The only US mag I see regularly is Sky & Telescope, when I'm buying my own astronomy mag. It only did a 'superb job in refuting Creationist nonsense' in your own mind btw; if that statement doesn't prove the authors are patronising cretins with an ulterior motive, I don't know what would.

As the great H. L. Mencken said, "there is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong."

Who?! And why was he 'great'?

And that is where the bible comes in. But don't get all huffy about it because it is not just your bible.

There you go jumping to conclusions again. 'My' bible? So I'll be able to claim a fortune in unpaid royalties, will I?

All religion is about controlling people for the benefit of the priest class (which parasites are supported by the faithful) and the state.....(same comment.)

That's true of a lot things-politics, sport, both of which have their 'priestly castes' supported by the faithful - but why continually single out religion?

[Rokcet Scientist]

Ladies and Gentlemen.........
JM is back
under the guise of Archaeologist

Indeed! And in cahoots with DB to confuse sensible, logical thinking and reasoning!

[Guest]

Indeed! And in cahoots with DB to confuse sensible, logical thinking and reasoning!

Not in this place, surely?!

[Minimalist]

Not every civilization has mass-entertainment sports....but all of them seem to have priests sucking the life out of people.

You know, Realist, virtually every religion comes down to one basic premise.


Some guy says to another guy: "Psst, hey you. Listen. God told me to tell you that he wants things done like this....oh, and he also said for you to give me some money.

BTW, I'll also do you a favor and tell your wife that she is your property because that's the way God wants it!" Wink....wink.

[Guest]

But that's true of a lot of things in life, Minimalist. In Britain, we have the Middle Classes constantly throwing tantrums to have things done their way, because they apparently 'know best'. No religion involved there.
Same with Left-wing politics; apparently they are the only people with all the answers, so the rest of the population simply must agree to see it their way.
Religion isn't the only example of social control, but it seems to be the only one people get their knickers in a twist about.

[Minimalist]

Well, we have Bible Belt Christian assholes running the US and I can assure you that it is far worse.

[Guest]

As opposed to Muslim fundamentalists crying for Sharia law in the UK, aided and abetted by Left-wingers who should know better?