Deleted

[Manystones]

Charlie,

What layer/age are you placing on these items...

They look _old_ like Homo Erectus?

[Charlie Hatchett]

Specimens sent to Warren Sharp, with Berkeley's Geochronology Center, for U series dating of carbonate in the flake channels:



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20152.jpg

Possible PreClovis Butchering Tool- Dorsal View- 7"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20153.jpg

Possible PreClovis Butchering Tool- Distal View- 7"- Lima-Igl

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http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20143.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Dorsal View- 6"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20144.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Proximal/ Ventral View- 6"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20145.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Distal View- 6"- Lima-Igl

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http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20425.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Dorsal View- 8.75"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20426.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Ventral View- 8.75"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20427.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Distal View- 8.75"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20428.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Proximal View- 8.75"- Lima-Igl

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http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20429.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Dorsal View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20430.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Ventral View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20431.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Distal View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20432.jpg

Possible PreClovis Cutting Tool- Proximal View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl

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http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20109.jpg

Another Possible PreClovis Uniface- Dorsal View- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20110.jpg

Another Possible PreClovis Uniface- Ventral View- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20108.jpg

Another Possible PreClovis Uniface- Basal/ Dorsal View- Lima-Igl

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http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20369.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 5" x 4.5"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20370.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 5" x 4.5"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20371.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 5" x 4.5"- Lima-Igl



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20372.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Proximal View- 5" x 4.5"- Lima-Igl

[Charlie Hatchett]

Charlie,

What layer/age are you placing on these items...

They look _old_ like Homo Erectus?

Hey Richard.

I'm guessing older than the 147,500 B.P. piece that was dated, with reservations, by Bishcoff at USGS. Let's assume the piece dated by Bischoff is actually 100,000 B.P., because of the possibilty of extraneous Th. Again, lets assume these pieces sent off for the next round of analysis are 10,000 B.P. older. So conservatively, let's say the pieces are 110,000 B.P. old. Sounds like Neanderthal, classic chronology wise, but there's definitely a strong flavor of Erectus technology present in the pieces. Maybe a hybrid, or transitional state?

[Minimalist]

Maybe a hybrid, or transitional state?

No...no....has to be a natural formation. The Club has so ruled!

[Charlie Hatchett]

No...no....has to be a natural formation. The Club has so ruled!

You are correct, my disciple:

Note chapter 5, verse 3- "Anything resembling Old World Technology in North America, is a geofact, by definition...no exceptions!"

Lol...

Very good work... Hitler will be proud.

I think you may be up for a promotion... Lol...

[Cognito]

Charlie, What layer/age are you placing on these items...

They look _old_ like Homo Erectus?

The most likely candidate would be Asian H. erectus. Charlie has garnered the attention of some very substantial geologists here. Let's keep our fingers crossed and get our paradigms ready for some serious shifting.

[Minimalist]

Did you say shifting or shitting?

[Cognito]

Did you say shifting or shitting?

It's the established old school that will be doing the shitting. As dating techniques are becoming more sophisticated and reliable the Clovis first paradigm is falling apart. I have seen some of the emails regarding Charlie's site and it is getting attention in impressive geological circles. If the dating holds up, it will open a pandora's box bigger than the state of Texas.

[Charlie Hatchett]

If the dating holds up, it will open a pandora's box bigger than the state of Texas.

And, if this piece is suitable for dating, it will open a pandora's box bigger than my long-winded posts:




http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20429.jpg

Note the iron staining, apparent in the middle of the piece.



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20430.jpg



http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20431.jpg

[Minimalist]

What else could that be other than iron staining? Let's be honest, the Club is more likely to come up with red ochre or accusing you of cutting your hand than acknowledge pre-Clovis iron smelting.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Let's be honest, the Club is more likely to come up with red ochre or accusing you of cutting your hand than acknowledge pre-Clovis iron smelting

.

Lol @ cutting myself!!

Let's see:

1. A plausible furnace, with blow holes.

2. A mold carved into the bedrock, 18' away.

3. Two magnetic bird effigies, apparently poured into ammonite casts.

4. Piles of charred ore.

5. Piles of iron stained rock.

Yup, somebody cut themselves and bled all over the place...lol!!

[stan]

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpal ... flutes.htm



Here's an article from the 90's about fluted points....i.e. Clovis, with a map showing their distribution. I wanted to post a better map like the one i posted several months ago, but have been unable to locate it.
Note coaslines and glacial areas.

[Minimalist]

You know....a sceptic could look at that map and wonder if the points did not start around Western Pennsylvania and radiate outward.

Anyone know any good sceptics?

[Beagle]

http://www.s2nmedia.com/arctic/html/den ... nford.html

In fact, the Smithsonian has been working along with researchers in Tennesee and in the Southeast in particular where we have the largest (and oldest) concentration of Clovis artifacts anywhere in North America.

Wow - I'm guilty of assuming that the Southeast had the most by far and the rest were in the Southwest. After looking at the map that Stan posted, I think it would be more accurate to say "east of the Mississippi".

[Charlie Hatchett]

I thought this was funny.




That report must have come out before Gault was excavated:

In work from 1998-2002, that began with the excavation of a mammoth mandible and associated Clovis artifacts, the Gault Project recovered more than one million artifacts from the site. Currently the Gault staff is analyzing the recovered data and beginning the production of a monograph slated for publication in 2007.

http://www.utexas.edu/research/tarl/res ... .php#intro

Clovis blades (Figure 4) and blade cores (Figure 5) are found abundantly in sites in the southeastern United States, moderately abundantly in Texas sites, and sparsely in the southwestern states and in the Great Plains. They are virtually absent in the northeastern states, around the Great Lakes, and in the far western states. Where they are found, Clovis blades and blade coreblade cores resemble similar artifacts from all Upper Paleolithic cultures, but especially those of Aurignacian, Solutrean, and Magdalenian affiliations. The Gault site has yielded the largest assemblages of such Clovis artifacts in Texas and one of the largest in North America.

http://www.utexas.edu/research/tarl/res ... ifacts.php

Meanwhile at the Gault site deep in the heart of central Texas, Clovis culture is being reconsidered week by week, midway through a planned five-year dig. The emerging view hardly resembles the Clovis story known to generations of archeology students. Instead of a new group of people exploring an unknown land, we seem to see a people thoroughly familiar with their surroundings. Instead of highly mobile elephant hunters, we see what looks like a full-blown generalized hunting and gathering culture living in the same kind of places and doing many of the same kinds of things that characterized Archaic-era life all across the continent a few thousand years later. This is more than a new spin, this is a whole new way of thinking about what is still, to many, America's earliest recognizable culture.

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/gault/clovis.html

They Came To Stay

Most known Clovis sites fall into one of four categories. By far the most numerous are places where isolated finds of Clovis points are made. The next most common are kill sites, places like Lehner and Murray Springs in southeastern Arizona or Domebo in south-central Oklahoma where elephant bones and Clovis artifacts were found together. And then there are Clovis caches, isolated places were Clovis points, bifaces, blades, or blade cores are found in tight piles thought to represent hidden stashes. Finally, there is the rarest category, camps—places where Clovis peoples stayed put long enough for considerable debris to build up. Some camps occur in rockshelters and others in open settings, but most known Clovis camps appear to be the result of fairly brief stays. In contrast, the Gault site is clearly a major base camp, a place where people returned repeatedly and probably stayed for lengthy periods of time.

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/gault/clovis.html

It is not just large, but incredibly rich. The Clovis deposits average about 40 centimeters (16 inches) thick but are sometimes twice that or more, and in places the deposits contain unbelievably large numbers of Clovis artifacts. Collins guesses that the Gault site may have already yielded as much as a third of all excavated Clovis artifacts known today.

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/gault/clovis.html

Textbooks will tell you that Clovis points were specifically designed for mammoth hunting. Yet, in the upper (and latest) Clovis deposits at Gault it appears that no change in weaponry was made after the extinction of the mammoths. The Clovis points are still the classic form and they are found with bison remains. Collins thinks this is another indication that Clovis technology was a generalized rather than specialized one. The prevailing concepts are ripe for reconsideration.

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/gault/clovis.html

Thus, the current model reflects heavy Clovis populations on the East and Gulf Coasts.

You know....a sceptic could look at that map and wonder if the points did not start around Western Pennsylvania and radiate outward.

Anyone know any good sceptics?

I hypothesize they came by boat, from Europe. Therefore the bodies of land, in close proximity to the Atlantic, were inhabited first, and then the populations spread from there.

Of course, this only applies to Clovis...Remember Erectus Ahoy