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marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:00 am

Sure does. And Ergaster is thought to be more generalized, containing the genetic variabilty to allow for multiple, natural selection events. Erectus is thought to have been more specialized in their genetic make up, making variability within their populations less pronounced.

I think theres something to be said for the idea that we are the offspring of ergaster and asian erectus
eurasia is where it was all happening
in particular along the caucasus boundary that marks the mid point between asia and africa
very volcanic area
lots of food
lots of fresh water
lots of fish
lots of game
etc
and then theres that world wide myth about god living on a mountaintop

just to keep the rest of you happy as well it was very close to the area that the hybrid neanderthals were found
i don't think we culled them out of existence though
i think that we f***ed them out of existence instead

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:05 am

Quote:
McJunkin's bone pit was one of the most important archeological discoveries made in America, and it caused a permanent shift in the prevailing paradigm. All of a sudden, archeologists had another 7,000 years of human history to account for. The find also made the search for early Americans respectable again, and it provided a time span that was sufficient to explain the bewildering diversity of languages and customs of Native American tribes.

Once such a shift occurs, a flood of new discoveries and a reevaluation of older ones often follow. In the two decades after the Folsom find, dozens of Paleo-Indian sites came to light, and papers came pouring out of museums and universities across the country.

Whew, that was a long 5 pages but a neat story.

I think we're finally seeing some of the inertia of old paradigms, concerning the peopling of N.A., slowly fade. Mike Collins support of Tom Dillehay and Mario Pino's Monte Verde Site kicked things off in the late 90's, where dating analyses provided results in the mid 30,000's B.P.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... llins.html

And then Al Goodyear is receiving much support for the Topper Site, where artifacts have been dated, minimally, at 50,000 B.P. Surely he's started some longer range analyses, like Uranium series, etc...Not a peep yet.

http://allendale-expedition.net/pressre ... 117pr.html

Then, we also have Jim Adovasio's Pennsylvania Meadowcroft Rock Shelter and Joe McAvoy's Virginia Cactus Hill Research, both which have received wide acceptance.

Mike Collin's Gault and Wilson-Leonard research is due out soon. Both have produced preClovis artifacts, though no dates have been released.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:33 am

Someday we'll want to see "Charlie Hatchett's Rock Collection" added to that litany of Club-Killing sites!

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:46 am

This is interesting.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 8e541.html

Because of occasional floods, silt piled up in the river's flood plain, trapping artifacts in perfect time-ordered layers dating back 15,000 years. Mammoth leg bones, stone dart tips and ax heads, grinding stones, earth ovens and charred animal bones tell the story of ancient people who hunted and gathered food in the region before the Spaniards arrived and began writing things down.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:27 am

i don't think we culled them out of existence though
i think that we ("bred") them out of existence instead

Kicked the men's butts, and stole their women.

Wouldn't be the only time in history, by far.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:30 am

This is interesting.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 8e541.html

Yeah, the site is absolutely loaded with stuff from Historic, back to Clovis, with discussions about preClovis, and the huge probability that Clovis was not indeed, first.

Note the lack of funding...it's a huge issue. Of course, when these guys report, they report big. The last major report, Wilson-Leonard, was 5 ca. 350 page manuals. Awesome study.

The preClovis reports, on Wilson-Leonard and Gault, are due out soon. Mike replicated evidence for preClovis at two sites (and possibly 3), only 25 miles apart. The Gault dig is done, so hopefully their working full steam ahead to get the reports out.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:42 am

Someday we'll want to see "Charlie Hatchett's Rock Collection" added to that litany of Club-Killing sites!

... waiting in line.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:43 am

O.K., guys. Everyone took their photos down, so I look like a ham!

Down mine comes.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:46 am

Yeah Charlie, everything I've read and studied about mankind at that time convinces me that humans were a virtual smorgasboard of anthropomorphic shapes. Not too different from what we see in the modern world.

Right.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:52 am

just to keep the rest of you happy as well it was very close to the area that the hybrid neanderthals were found
i don't think we culled them out of existence though
i think that we f***ed them out of existence instead

Yup ... that's exactly what happened. Kill the adult men and steal the women and children (I can attest that children make great slaves). Furthermore, any hybrid genetic traces would have washed out eons ago.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:00 pm

Yup ... that's exactly what happened. Kill the adult men and steal the women and children. Furthermore, any hybrid genetic traces would have washed out eons ago

thats not neccesary
when you consider that any hybrid offspring would have most likely been sterile as is the case with most hybrid offspring of two different species there would have been no need to kill anyone
a full 50-50 friendly merger between two groups would have left the next generation with only hybrid offspring who couldn't procreate
the generation after that just wouldn't exist
meanwhile the human race was going from strength to strength elswhere where it hadn't interacted with the Neanderthals

William Golding write a book about this very scenario over 50 years ago
it was called aptly enough
The inheritors
http://www.william-golding.co.uk/w_inheritors.html

O.K., guys. Everyone took their photos down, so I look like a ham!

Down mine comes.

and up goes mine

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:15 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:O.K., guys. Everyone took their photos down, so I look like a ham!

Down mine comes.

Charlie, I'm just looking for a photo besides my studio shot in a coat and tie. I had it on an old business card. I'll find a real life photo and put it up.

I like your picture.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:18 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
i don't think we culled them out of existence though
i think that we ("bred") them out of existence instead
Kicked the men's butts, and stole their women.

Wouldn't be the only time in history, by far.

Just like the rape of the Sabine women. Interesting Charlie, and it would explain the mDNA findings.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:41 pm

and it would explain the mDNA findings.

there have been no mtDNA findings
Link ?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:28 pm

Another hand ax:

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20463.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Dorsal View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20464.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Ventral View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20465.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl

http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.co ... %20466.jpg

Possible PreClovis Hand Ax- Distal View- 7.25"- Lima-Igl

Archaeologica.org

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Existence